Originally posted by efkay
since this year PVI can be as low as 0.1!
i am aware of this 
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Under it's current guise the PVI system appears to be a devious con on players then.
I can confirm that you get low PVI just for playing with high volume, despite losing. I was in a nasty downswing and PVI crashed down. I think it has nothing to do with profits, it's purely based on volume.
If we ever want it to change, we have to keep noise about it. Only public opinion can change their minds about PVI.
I still love the software and the player pools are large and fishy so i guess it's all about weighing up the pros and cons.I wouldn't feel so uneasy about the PVI cashback system if it was clear and honest if i'm only getting 2% or 6% cashback then tell me.Don't tell me i'm getting 20% flat cashback when it's disguised in dishonesty because it just causes a mistrust in the site itself.
Originally posted by KyyberiIf we ever want it to change, we have to keep noise about it. Only public opinion can change their minds about PVI.
Imo they couldnt care less how regs are whining about their system.
And casuals never gonna realise how they r screwed over. Most of them never gonna read any poker related forum to realise how blind they are.
The only way ppl can raise their voice is to take their actions elsewhere (in this row i am talking against myself 
)
Playing somewhere else doesn't concern them, as they have thousands of players. But public knowledge can turn the scale, as happened with their banning policies and PLO rake. The more players know about PVI screwing them, the more pressure it creates to change it.
Originally posted by Kyyberi
Playing somewhere else doesn't concern them, as they have thousands of players.
untill "they have thousands of players"
It doesn't seem quite right that two people on the same fish buffet tier generating the same rake.Can both spin the same reward or both be on 20% flat cashback and be receiving different percentages of cashback.
Hey guys,
The PVI standard is not new and was first introduced by Winamax in 2013 or 2014. It was then adopted by iPoker so they could control the tier 2 high rakeback skins who were acting in a manner detrimental to the ongoing success and promotion of the network.
Sadly in recent times, poker rooms have been using PVI to limit rewards to high volume regs under the false premise that they increase rewards to recs and net depositors. This is clearly a fallacy as the low volume of these players means they can never maximise their rewards so it is clearly a cash grab by the rooms concerned.
Therefore the only course of action is to vote with your feet and move to rooms with a more transparent reward system. This will ensure that those responsible rooms will adapt their rewards programs.
These are my personal views and opinions and in no way should be assumed to be those of PokerStrategy.com or their partners.
Regards
Laz
If you get scammed in business, you do two things: you stop doing business with them, AND you tell people what happened. To prevent others into falling the same trap.
Originally posted by Kyyberi
If you get scammed in business, you do two things: you stop doing business with them, AND you tell people what happened. To prevent others into falling the same trap.
Originally posted by Lazza61
Therefore the only course of action is to vote with your feet and move to rooms with a more transparent reward system. This will ensure that those responsible rooms will adapt their rewards programs.
We are not responsible for the business practices of our partners, nor do we have influence over them. We merely try to provide a safe environment for new players to play.
If there's one thing i have learned over the years it's that poker players are like stray dogs no matter how much you kick them they keep coming back with their tails wagging.
"I do not condone or endorse the kicking of stray dogs"
By "business" I referred player-GG relationship. Nothing to do with PokerStrategy.
Poker players are weird breed. They play at stars small stakes (regs with high volume) and give up thousands of dollars due to lack of rakeback. They play at GG and give up thousands of dollars due to lack of rakeback.
I get it if you are playing for fun, but to grind hours every day... I don't get it. Probably they just haven't ever realized how much they would make more with rakeback.
Originally posted by Kyyberi
By "business" I referred player-GG relationship. Nothing to do with PokerStrategy.Poker players are weird breed. They play at stars small stakes (regs with high volume) and give up thousands of dollars due to lack of rakeback. They play at GG and give up thousands of dollars due to lack of rakeback.
I get it if you are playing for fun, but to grind hours every day... I don't get it. Probably they just haven't ever realized how much they would make more with rakeback.
What sites would you recommend i'm thinking about splitting my bankroll between party poker and ipoker so i can take advantage of deals on both networks during peak hours but do you have similar or better alternatives for rakeback ?
Could someone transfer all those levels from the first post to the real Rakeback value and how much rake I have to pay monthly to achieve all of those levels?
Originally posted by raven112233
Could someone transfer all those levels from the first post to the real Rakeback value and how much rake I have to pay monthly to achieve all of those levels?
That's just the thing you can't because every player is awarded points differently in the PVI system.Although we both need the same amount of points to reach the same fish buffet levels were awarded those points at different rates.And we will receive different percentages of cashback for generating exactly the same amount of rake.So no one knows exactly what they're getting or how it's worked out and the site wont tell you.
What are the ranges of expected Rakeback?
For example. I paid 2k $ rake. Should I expect 10-20% or 20-30% or 10-30% or ...?
2K would normally give 200K points. That would give Black Octopus and 35% rakeback.
This is how PVI works: If you have PVI 0,5, then that 2K rake would give you only 100K points. If you have PVI 0,1 that 2K rake would give you only 20K points.
Let's say you are at Black Octopus rank, which gives you $1 per 285 points. You rake $2000.
With PVI 1, you would get 200K points, giving around $700 in rakeback = 35% rakeback.
With PVI 0,5 you would get 100K points, giving around $350 in rakeback = 17,5% rakeback.
With PVI 0,1 you would get 20K points, giving around $70 in rakeback = 3,5% rakeback.
So as you can see, PVI can screw your rakeback. And for all who cashout more than deposit, and/or plays decent volume, have low PVI.