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PLO20 KQJ4ds BB defence, donk turn?

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ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

This is out of memory. We were 220bb deep. Villain had been around 20/16 not that aggro but not much hands. I tried to go for x-r on turn but not sure if we should donk bet? Reasoning being that even though this is gutshot completing its still most likely draw on this dry flop. Plus our hand can just get worse with river. So would it make sense to have donk bet range? Though maybe I should just x-c turn considering how deep stacks are and if we end up letting villain to freeroll river its quite a disaster. Having some nuts on blank rivers would be kind of nice thing also. Otherwise villain can just press the medal with triple barrel and put my range in really tough spot.

So yeah after thinking this I think x-c is perhaps best line and x-r river if still having nuts. Villain could still bet some sets at least for value on river thinking I dont have straight after calling turn. Well possibly at least.

Hand K♥:J♥:Q♦:4♦:

BU raise to 0.7€, SB fold, Hero call

Flop (1.5€) A♠:T♦:4♣:
Hero check, BU bets 1.2€, Hero call

Turn (3.9€) K♠:
Hero?


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Mascherano95
Joined: 09.10.2010

Wether to donk or x/r turn depends on villains aggression. as a default I am used to donk here since I also use it as a nnutstraight completing scarecard to bluff. a check-raise would be much harder to balance. x/c only makes sense if he is the type of guys bluff barreling twice and potentially calling a river raise with less than nuts (a tilt maniac so to speak). x/(min-) raise makes more sense on a blank river.


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Nunki
Joined: 25.10.2006

C/r the turn. You might be freerolled but more often you'll be freerolling him with your f/h draw. You're way ahead here and no worries about being triple barrelled.


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ZakYoun270
Joined: 10.12.2015

Pre : looks fine

flop : looks good again. doesn't seem like a spot where leading makes sense, since BU has the polarity advantage. we have decent turn playability, with the backdoor diamonds and the four, and our hand does a good job of absorbing aggression.

turn I'm not really sure if check raise or lead is better. I guess c/c is an option too although might be too fancy. I get the impression that we're not "supposed" to donk texture changing turns in these sort of heads up oop spots, presumably because this would leave our turn checking range too vulnerable. Especially if we are just donking the nuts then villain can run us over after we check, but even if we are donking nuts + air we will just never be check raising the turn so villain can still run us over. So I guess I will opt for check raise, or maybe even check call given that we are so deep and out of position.


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Mascherano95
Joined: 09.10.2010

Originally posted by ZakYoun270
Pre : looks fine

flop : looks good again. doesn't seem like a spot where leading makes sense, since BU has the polarity advantage. we have decent turn playability, with the backdoor diamonds and the four, and our hand does a good job of absorbing aggression.

Generally leading is an valid option for the oop player to use the (in PLO commonly occuring) texture shifts. Done correctly it allows us to deny much more Equity by adding bluffs we could not check-call becase our value range is more polarized (compared to his wide flop stabbing range). Villain would have a tough time continuing against a potentially nutted range fearing to have to call off another river barrel for showdown (leverage). We can compensate positional disadvantage by having polarity advantage (at least partially).

The preflop-flop shift is the most significant as 3 cards at once are dealt at just 1 betting round. This is a huge load of new information making donking strategies an important part of a balanced strategy on many low/dry/static/light board textures. To illustrate this I´d mention the nutted flop leading frequencies used by solver to extract value on light boards where solver start leading most of his top range despite texture, polarity, equities etc.. would actually demand 100% checking for balancing purposes. This should not be an argument for donking in this specific hand I just wanted to clearify the reasons to generally start donkig flop or turn.

turn I'm not really sure if check raise or lead is better. I guess c/c is an option too although might be too fancy. I get the impression that we're not "supposed" to donk texture changing turns in these sort of heads up oop spots, presumably because this would leave our turn checking range too vulnerable. Especially if we are just donking the nuts then villain can run us over after we check, but even if we are donking nuts + air we will just never be check raising the turn so villain can still run us over. So I guess I will opt for check raise, or maybe even check call given that we are so deep and out of position.

I´d say x/r turn can still be better because of the importance of protection and preserving our Equity weighing higher than the implied value we might get by luring villain into a river bluff barreling scenario. A player from NLHE background naturally would advocate to x/c turn x/r or x/c river. Imo this is an example for different lines where it is hard to explain why to do so by bare terms of value, protection and foldequity. Donking would be also not common in NLHE since the nutstraight would be a much smaller and static portion of our value range compared to PLO.


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