JJ 4bet defense

I posted a hand the other day holding JJ vs a 4-bet and I recall you saying it would be fine to get it in aswell, I think getting it in with JJ in those spots may be overplaying against someone who doesn’t 4-bet light I bring that up because in this situation it seems the same, jamming JJ into a nit in a 4-bet pot seems like an overplay, what worse will call, what better will fold? What worse hands is the guy calling the shove with? If he’s a nit does he even have TT in a 4-betting range? AK will fold to a turn shove unless maybe 1combo of AKhh.

Well hes probably a recreational nit as he tank called with AQo, which is a bit weird for his stats for sure. I was thinking about jamming JJ more for protection then value against check, since pot is slightly bigger then stack and folding becomes a lesser option.

Originally posted by LMcrow
Well hes probably a recreational nit as he tank called with AQo, which is a bit weird for his stats for sure. I was thinking about jamming JJ more for protection then value against check, since pot is slightly bigger then stack and folding becomes a lesser option.

Protection against what? AK,AQ? Those hands have 6 outs, if we check turn and they miss they may be more inclined to bluff into us on the river which would make me think he should continue barreling his AA,KK and QQ on the turn..of course he could be checking turn to induce a bet with AA or KK but we get pot odds on the river when he bets and we can assess whether we think he has bluffs in his range or not when no high cards come on the river. If we blast the turn surely AA,KK,QQ will be calling and villain should be folding out his AK,AQ without NFD.

which is a bit weird for his stats for sure

I dont know about a hand (probably fine, cause when would he call his A high to allin in 4b pot if not here?), but for sure you are putting too much trust in stats. Especially small sample stats. 400 hands is a half session, he might just have a little (just a little bit) bad draw in your history.

It does seem like an overplay jamming here. Maybe we could bet turn small, 1/4, then fold to a raise. We can keep his low pairs in, and i don't see you getting x/r bluffed here, very unlikely. We don't want to give free equity checking back and also don't want to give him the option to bluff shove river.

Originally posted by DecMate
It does seem like an overplay jamming here. Maybe we could bet turn small, 1/4, then fold to a raise. We can keep his low pairs in, and i don't see you getting x/r bluffed here, very unlikely. We don't want to give free equity checking back and also don't want to give him the option to bluff shove river.

What 4-bet range are you giving a presumed tight player from UTG? I ask because I don’t see them 4-betting a worse PP besides possibly TT but even a tight player might call the 3-bet with TT.

On the turn the pot is 40$ and we have 35 behind, you would bet 10 dollars making the pot 50, and when villain jams for 25 more making the pot 75 and 25 to call fold an overpair? I would rather check back then being put in that spot, I’m willing to give him his 12% equity from turn to river with his AK,AQ without hearts and diamonds (4combos of FD’s)

Originally posted by Casey55

Originally posted by DecMate
It does seem like an overplay jamming here. Maybe we could bet turn small, 1/4, then fold to a raise. We can keep his low pairs in, and i don't see you getting x/r bluffed here, very unlikely. We don't want to give free equity checking back and also don't want to give him the option to bluff shove river.

What 4-bet range are you giving a presumed tight player from UTG? I ask because I don’t see them 4-betting a worse PP besides possibly TT but even a tight player might call the 3-bet with TT.

On the turn the pot is 40$ and we have 35 behind, you would bet 10 dollars making the pot 50, and when villain jams for 25 more making the pot 75 and 25 to call fold an overpair? I would rather check back then being put in that spot, I’m willing to give him his 12% equity from turn to river with his AK,AQ without hearts and diamonds (4combos of FD’s)

Yeah I didn't fully take the hand in here. Guess he doesn't have any small pockets in a 4b utg range.
And also didn't take in the SPR being that small on the turn. MB. Is the plan to x/b and call any river he jams that isn't an AKQ? .. We may as well ship the turn if we know he's a nit who might not bluff at the river?

Originally posted by DecMate

Originally posted by Casey55

Originally posted by DecMate
It does seem like an overplay jamming here. Maybe we could bet turn small, 1/4, then fold to a raise. We can keep his low pairs in, and i don't see you getting x/r bluffed here, very unlikely. We don't want to give free equity checking back and also don't want to give him the option to bluff shove river.

What 4-bet range are you giving a presumed tight player from UTG? I ask because I don’t see them 4-betting a worse PP besides possibly TT but even a tight player might call the 3-bet with TT.

On the turn the pot is 40$ and we have 35 behind, you would bet 10 dollars making the pot 50, and when villain jams for 25 more making the pot 75 and 25 to call fold an overpair? I would rather check back then being put in that spot, I’m willing to give him his 12% equity from turn to river with his AK,AQ without hearts and diamonds (4combos of FD’s)

Yeah I didn't fully take the hand in here. Guess he doesn't have any small pockets in a 4b utg range.
And also didn't take in the SPR being that small on the turn. MB. Is the plan to x/b and call any river he jams that isn't an AKQ? .. We may as well ship the turn if we know he's a nit who might not bluff at the river?

No worries dude.. I’m not entirely sure about whats the best play but I’d probably just call on the river to any card thats not a A,K or Q like you mentioned. Some might prefer jamming turn idk its interesting either way.

On turn I think its close but against tight player to begin with I'm leaning more toward checking back and decide river. I dont think we need that much protection as most players would just shove turn with their flushdraws.