PLO50 K976ds 3way 3bet pot, semibluff flushing turn?

i would see it more that check turn might be better
maybe with bluffing turn here you throw away a kind of free roll, because we can realize equity for free, see his river decision and still have the option to bluff versus check river. overpairs with nothing at all should also not bet pot at the flop and i dont think a tight player would do that 3 way frequently, maybe with just A♠:, but then not check turn of course. so i think he has still the polarity advantage either way, can check the turn often to get the rest in on the river versus made hands or get a bluff.

There are still decent amount of AA without lot of support that solver would pot. I filtered AA without flushdraw or two pair+ and 1/3 of those are still potting. Weakest ones being like pair blocker with fd blocker.

One thing to also consider is that AA is easy to overvalue in 3way spot when SPR is just 2. Plus flop is not one that is likely to hit anyone.

Also interesting question is if people are betting hand like AA with nf blocker on turn? Or should hand like that even shove? Flushes are not folding but obviously goal would not really be that anyway but more of equity denial versus bottom of my call range. So imo there is chance in this spot that SB goes too much into check/give up mode and doesnt really think about that side. Plus its obviously sort of stupid to shove turn and get snapped by flush and be dead. But when SPR is this low it probably shouldnt stop SB from shoving some of those.

That also brings question of should we fold turn almost ever with two pair, straight or set? Well sets and straights I would never fold at least. Solver is calling some of two pairs without fd on turn. Would probably just shove those mainly myself and those were pretty much just non top 2 types which are super rare. So just coming to conclusion that when SB shoves turn its probably not to really get any hand that beat AA to fold but of those like wraps (with pair or not) or pair+oesd+bdfd combos.

yesterday was just looking at overpairs here on 843s
there a pure overpair without anything check 100%, but then not made the connection that the rest still will bet, also checked it out for others AA as well^^
thats why yesterday was already thinking about if it makes sense just always check it down without spades, which didn't seem to make sense too ♦

but still think that i would go for a river action here. dont know maybe that might be also a bit site dependent by pool habits or just maybe more like for that kind of stakes.
the other stuff i was just research afterwards, but not that good^^

Ah yes preflop is a call. The K♣: is kinda not the best card here so I guess a fold is marginally okayish if we prefer to gather further information about button. But not a big deal indeed. I would probably call this oop aswell.

Flop is a must-call indeed. It´s the nutted wrap version and bdfd is valueable too. Without showdown value (or possibilities to improve to showdown like gettin a second pair) I also like the turn-bet we can still check-back a straight at showdown and it also kinda prevents villain from donk-bluffing otr but if we get called without blocker I would give up the river.

Originally posted by ghaleon
There are still decent amount of AA without lot of support that solver would pot. I filtered AA without flushdraw or two pair+ and 1/3 of those are still potting. Weakest ones being like pair blocker with fd blocker.

One thing to also consider is that AA is easy to overvalue in 3way spot when SPR is just 2. Plus flop is not one that is likely to hit anyone.

Also interesting question is if people are betting hand like AA with nf blocker on turn? Or should hand like that even shove? Flushes are not folding but obviously goal would not really be that anyway but more of equity denial versus bottom of my call range. So imo there is chance in this spot that SB goes too much into check/give up mode and doesnt really think about that side. Plus its obviously sort of stupid to shove turn and get snapped by flush and be dead. But when SPR is this low it probably shouldnt stop SB from shoving some of those.

That also brings question of should we fold turn almost ever with two pair, straight or set? Well sets and straights I would never fold at least. Solver is calling some of two pairs without fd on turn. Would probably just shove those mainly myself and those were pretty much just non top 2 types which are super rare. So just coming to conclusion that when SB shoves turn its probably not to really get any hand that beat AA to fold but of those like wraps (with pair or not) or pair+oesd+bdfd combos.

I don´t think the Nutflushblocker can be used to shove turns repping a flush. It´s a card increasing FE of our Cbet with AAxx blocking big parts of villains stack-off range. Once villain calls it´s totally black and white and villain will call any flush so we have to balance against that (by having more checks and also balancing our checking range by putting check-calls in it with mediocre hands). Since few players insta shove-bluff that turn shift it makes sense to double check AAxx+nf-blocker and snap off some river bluffs especially wiht paired turn or river. It´s a play against loose aggressive players though, not sth I´d recommend against unknown or Tag. Most AAxx I think are check-folds against a flush and I think solver is folding most of them aswell if we are above SPR2.

Flop is btw super marginal call in solver with my hand and everyone having 100bb stacks (around 1BB profit). Without bdfd it would be just fold. If SB pots too wide with hands like AA, KK, top pair then it gets somewhat better. I think there is fair chance of this when SPR is 2 for SB. Being on tight preflop does not necessarily correspond to playing flop passive in low SPR spot imo. But that said me being SPR 3 with BU will lower that EV. Point being I dont think flop decision matter that much either way.

In trainer flop with 862 its also noteworthy that wrap with K975 without fd or bdfd would shove but reason is its 17 out wrap compared to my 13 out.

Originally posted by ghaleon
Flop is btw super marginal call in solver with my hand and everyone having 100bb stacks (around 1BB profit). Without bdfd it would be just fold. If SB pots too wide with hands like AA, KK, top pair then it gets somewhat better. I think there is fair chance of this when SPR is 2 for SB. Being on tight preflop does not necessarily correspond to playing flop passive in low SPR spot imo. But that said me being SPR 3 with BU will lower that EV. Point being I dont think flop decision matter that much either way.

In trainer flop with 862 its also noteworthy that wrap with K975 without fd or bdfd would shove but reason is its 17 out wrap compared to my 13 out.

Absolutely yes. Yes those 17-wraps perform better at low SPR´s because of the more smooth equity distribution. With less nuttiness and more outs in general those hand categories prefers to go into ramble&shove-mode the smaller the SPR becomes. And those backdoors really often make the difference between betting and checking, indeed. It´s something I also noticed in recent studies.