[Closed] Is Poker A Con

Originally posted by alejandrosh

Originally posted by NightFrostaSS

Originally posted by Termi8r

Originally posted by tmannie

Originally posted by Dragar

Originally posted by tmannie

Originally posted by tmannie

Originally posted by TheBrood

Originally posted by Dragar

Originally posted by tmannie
You are obviously a sarcastic little jerk , I however have the hand histories to support what I say. And in fact I do make way more money at black jack
than poker . And besides I have won a few tournies and cashed many times , this however does'nt alter the fact that poker is heavily dependant on luck , keeping in mind tha luck comes in many forms. Skill and study only helps one upto a point.The only reason I play poker is because I enjoy tournies , its as simple as that.

Easy solution.
Play BJ.

People like you put me on life time tilt.

You are 100% right G1

Nothing against new players and them trying to learn the game.. but ffs.. I hate stuff like what you wrote.

Play me HU right now... I show you luck... grrr...

Aren't you supposed to like... not tilt when you play HU?

I cant imagine why , whether you hate what I wrote or not does'nt alter the facts as evident in my handhistories and like I said I generaly play as close as I can to the book , I dont like those facts either but they exist and I can prove it with my hand histories

You sound to me like you were born on tilt and want blame somebody else for your sad situation

I am on tilt 24/7!!!!!
Everyone knows that.....

Now play me sir!! Play me!!!

Nah but seriously...
Dude.. just quit then alrighty?
If ya can't beat the game and don't understand why you don't beat it hence blaming it on luck (this is approximately the same when golfers blame aliens that their shot curved) stop playing it.

Poker is a lot of fun... but stuff like this:

$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG laguite34 ($12.49)
CO LepariaONE ($39.64)
BTN Hero ($49.25)
SB Ifootball ($48.75)
BB xmarsholdem ($30.99)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 5 players) Hero is BTN T♣ T♥
laguite34 calls $0.50, LepariaONE raises to $1.75, Hero raises to $6 , Ifootball calls $5.75, 1 fold, laguite34 folds, LepariaONE calls $4.25

Flop: 4♠ 2♣ T♦ ($19, 3 players)
Ifootball checks, LepariaONE bets $15, Hero calls $15, Ifootball folds

Turn: 9♣ ($49, 2 players)
LepariaONE bets $18.64, Hero calls $18.64

River: J♠ ($86.28, 2 players)

Final Pot: $86.28
LepariaONE shows: J♣ J♦
Hero shows: T♣ T♥

LepariaONE wins $84.78 ( won +$45.14 )
Ifootball lost -$6
laguite34 lost -$0.50
Hero lost -$39.64

always happens from time to time.

I had 2-3 hands like that one today.

I am still up in 971 hands while being 105$ under expectation.

So common.... I have been unlucky today, cards were against me. Lucky rivers for villains. How can I still be winning if its all luck? Don't you think I, and so many other players on this site, do something *cough* skill *cough* to make them win and make those bad beats over a big sample size insignificant to our overall money flow?

Hey Waiboy, you created a monster by teaching him to quote ♦

+1

lol quotaments

I don't understand the point... clear, concise, one post, one page, no need to read the whole thread.

Originally posted by tmannie
I am not saying that poker is all luck merely that there is a lot more luck involved than people care to admit, which they often mask by using jargon, calling it all sorts of other things . I prefer to call a spade a spade (by spade I mean shovel) not the racially insulting version therof.

Fine lets call it exactly by what it is.
There is no luck, a person is never lucky or unlucky in anything he does his entire life. Luck is something which purely exists in your mind, created by your mind because it cannot understand fully what happened. The string of events which lead to the final outcome of whatever, be it that a car hit you and you walk away untouched, are just so complex that your mind cannot trace them. Noone can. Thats why people call it "lucky".

Now poker is purely math, everything about it. Why a certain card hits is math.. this is because we do not see poker as one hand played and then another hand played, but as a string of infinite hands played after each other. If we look at it that way we understand that every time you play AA vs 22 you will lose 1/10 of the time. Every time you have set vs under set you will lose around 2/100 times. This is pure math.... the beat has to occur. If it would not occur something would be very wrong.

Now poor players (sorry) do not understand this concept. They see them selfs losing and think, whoa.. my opponent played so bad and he got lucky. No he did not get lucky.. he fell into those 20%-30% (which is the majority of hands we play in poker) to which you supposed to lose your hand.
The thing is if we would play this hand the same way for an infinite number of times, or atleast a big enough sample size since infinite only exists in pure math, we will win our 70% of the time. Hence we make 40% profit overall.

Now this is just the pure math side. By playing the game more and more you can even tweak it more into your favour by making opponents fold better hands then yours for a variety of factors. Most hands in poker are not decided by show-downs.

If you cannot understand the concept by looking poker at a game as a string of infinite hands played, or maybe as all hands ever played in the past and in the future as one instant in time (this is a more advanced complex which can also be used to describe an entire life), you will always have these dillusional thoughts.

Don't worry though.... a lot of people think like you. Its easier for your mind to accept "luck" then to think about more advanced things like the meaning of time, strings of events, butterfly effects, chaos theory, etc.. because this is what it comes down to eventually.

Poker, in so many ways, is a quintessential game. If you understand it, and not just the rules but everything about it, you will change your thoughts about a lot of things and know how to deal with people better etc.

+1 ♦

And if you can understand 23.74% of what Dragar just said you should be able to improve your game.

yes any think to do with gambling is fixed wheres theres money involed dog horse racing poker blackjack owt there is always some one scaming some 1 even the bloody gas man robs you, anyway just stop gambling and you only have to worry about your g/f robbing you then (hide the credit cards) lol on line gambing is programed and can easy be fixed just a computer at the end of the day, programed not to lose, and alot of poker sites have bots ( robots) to take ya money of you in ring games, nothing is safe when you relay on a computers................ blow em all up

Luck is a crutch for the ill-informed.

Originally posted by Dragar

Originally posted by tmannie
I am not saying that poker is all luck merely that there is a lot more luck involved than people care to admit, which they often mask by using jargon, calling it all sorts of other things . I prefer to call a spade a spade (by spade I mean shovel) not the racially insulting version therof.

Fine lets call it exactly by what it is.
There is no luck, a person is never lucky or unlucky in anything he does his entire life. Luck is something which purely exists in your mind, created by your mind because it cannot understand fully what happened. The string of events which lead to the final outcome of whatever, be it that a car hit you and you walk away untouched, are just so complex that your mind cannot trace them. Noone can. Thats why people call it "lucky".

Now poker is purely math, everything about it. Why a certain card hits is math.. this is because we do not see poker as one hand played and then another hand played, but as a string of infinite hands played after each other. If we look at it that way we understand that every time you play AA vs 22 you will lose 1/10 of the time. Every time you have set vs under set you will lose around 2/100 times. This is pure math.... the beat has to occur. If it would not occur something would be very wrong.

Now poor players (sorry) do not understand this concept. They see them selfs losing and think, whoa.. my opponent played so bad and he got lucky. No he did not get lucky.. he fell into those 20%-30% (which is the majority of hands we play in poker) to which you supposed to lose your hand.
The thing is if we would play this hand the same way for an infinite number of times, or atleast a big enough sample size since infinite only exists in pure math, we will win our 70% of the time. Hence we make 40% profit overall.

Now this is just the pure math side. By playing the game more and more you can even tweak it more into your favour by making opponents fold better hands then yours for a variety of factors. Most hands in poker are not decided by show-downs.

If you cannot understand the concept by looking poker at a game as a string of infinite hands played, or maybe as all hands ever played in the past and in the future as one instant in time (this is a more advanced complex which can also be used to describe an entire life), you will always have these dillusional thoughts.

Don't worry though.... a lot of people think like you. Its easier for your mind to accept "luck" then to think about more advanced things like the meaning of time, strings of events, butterfly effects, chaos theory, etc.. because this is what it comes down to eventually.

Poker, in so many ways, is a quintessential game. If you understand it, and not just the rules but everything about it, you will change your thoughts about a lot of things and know how to deal with people better etc.

isn't the butterfly effect the same as chaos theory?

and what does the meaning of time have to do with poker?

Poker is not a con, but it often is a BITCH.

Originally posted by shortfuse

Originally posted by Dragar

Originally posted by tmannie
I am not saying that poker is all luck merely that there is a lot more luck involved than people care to admit, which they often mask by using jargon, calling it all sorts of other things . I prefer to call a spade a spade (by spade I mean shovel) not the racially insulting version therof.

Fine lets call it exactly by what it is.
There is no luck, a person is never lucky or unlucky in anything he does his entire life. Luck is something which purely exists in your mind, created by your mind because it cannot understand fully what happened. The string of events which lead to the final outcome of whatever, be it that a car hit you and you walk away untouched, are just so complex that your mind cannot trace them. Noone can. Thats why people call it "lucky".

Now poker is purely math, everything about it. Why a certain card hits is math.. this is because we do not see poker as one hand played and then another hand played, but as a string of infinite hands played after each other. If we look at it that way we understand that every time you play AA vs 22 you will lose 1/10 of the time. Every time you have set vs under set you will lose around 2/100 times. This is pure math.... the beat has to occur. If it would not occur something would be very wrong.

Now poor players (sorry) do not understand this concept. They see them selfs losing and think, whoa.. my opponent played so bad and he got lucky. No he did not get lucky.. he fell into those 20%-30% (which is the majority of hands we play in poker) to which you supposed to lose your hand.
The thing is if we would play this hand the same way for an infinite number of times, or atleast a big enough sample size since infinite only exists in pure math, we will win our 70% of the time. Hence we make 40% profit overall.

Now this is just the pure math side. By playing the game more and more you can even tweak it more into your favour by making opponents fold better hands then yours for a variety of factors. Most hands in poker are not decided by show-downs.

If you cannot understand the concept by looking poker at a game as a string of infinite hands played, or maybe as all hands ever played in the past and in the future as one instant in time (this is a more advanced complex which can also be used to describe an entire life), you will always have these dillusional thoughts.

Don't worry though.... a lot of people think like you. Its easier for your mind to accept "luck" then to think about more advanced things like the meaning of time, strings of events, butterfly effects, chaos theory, etc.. because this is what it comes down to eventually.

Poker, in so many ways, is a quintessential game. If you understand it, and not just the rules but everything about it, you will change your thoughts about a lot of things and know how to deal with people better etc.

isn't the butterfly effect the same as chaos theory?

and what does the meaning of time have to do with poker?

Butterfly effect is part of chaos theory, not the same.

Meaning of time is how you look at poker and hands played. You can assume that all the hands you ever played happened in one instant, that there is no past, present or future and its all the same. Then you would see that the math is spot on. Its just how you think of time thats all.

Chaos Theory is really cool.

Poker is really cool.

Therefore... Poker is Chaos Theory!

Edit: Sorry forgot to say something on subject:

When I win. Its pure awesome skill.
When I lose. Its pure bad luck.

Its funny. The more I practice the less it seems to be luck?

@ drager

you are assuming time is infinite and the player is immortal, since you seem to believe wholeheartedly that the maths will be SPOT ON. when in actual fact, as we all know, anything could happen.

besides, i thought you meant meaning of time in a philosophical manner.

can you explain what chaos theory has explicitly to do with poker?

@smileyphil

that quote is soooo overused lol

Originally posted by shortfuse
@ drager

you are assuming time is infinite and the player is immortal, since you seem to believe wholeheartedly that the maths will be SPOT ON. when in actual fact, as we all know, anything could happen.

besides, i thought you meant meaning of time in a philosophical manner.

can you explain what chaos theory has explicitly to do with poker?
l

It has to do with luck, not directly with poker. And OP was referring to luck.

Besides.. I bet if you analyse it.. some patterns will emerge in the outcomes of shuffles. It seems random, but from time to time there will be a pattern... not throughout all the shuffles but between a few here and there
Lets not get into this or I will have people screaming rigged or wtf are you saying etc.

Life poker is particularly interesting in this aspect because the dealer will shuffle the deck the same way every time subconciously. So sometimes some patterns come, like similar flops, flops involving cards of certain people etc. etc.

And about the time thing... the math is spot on in theory.. its not a believe but a proven fact. It just deviates slightly here and there but given a high enough sample size the deviations become very small.

Originally posted by Dragar

Originally posted by shortfuse
@ drager

you are assuming time is infinite and the player is immortal, since you seem to believe wholeheartedly that the maths will be SPOT ON. when in actual fact, as we all know, anything could happen.

besides, i thought you meant meaning of time in a philosophical manner.

can you explain what chaos theory has explicitly to do with poker?
l

It has to do with luck, not directly with poker. And OP was referring to luck.

Besides.. I bet if you analyse it.. some patterns will emerge in the outcomes of shuffles. It seems random, but from time to time there will be a pattern... not throughout all the shuffles but between a few here and there
Lets not get into this or I will have people screaming rigged or wtf are you saying etc.

Life poker is particularly interesting in this aspect because the dealer will shuffle the deck the same way every time subconciously. So sometimes some patterns come, like similar flops, flops involving cards of certain people etc. etc.

And about the time thing... the math is spot on in theory.. its not a believe but a proven fact. It just deviates slightly here and there but given a high enough sample size the deviations become very small.

under theoretical observation, the maths is indeed spot on- i totally agree.

when it is proven mathematically, there must be the use of 'infinite'. However, in real life there is no way we can ever reach infinity! Hence, whilst theories give us a better understanding, you cannot so boldly say it is SPOT ON.

Interesting thought, a very 'unlucky' good player may never win any money in 1 billion hands if the cards do not fall for him.
Now you may ask, this is highly improbable and i would concur.

But think- there are 6 billion people on earth, imagine we all play poker- would it now be so weird to imagine this?

My point is: you can never be certain with probabilty.

Originally posted by Dragar
Besides.. I bet if you analyse it.. some patterns will emerge in the outcomes of shuffles. It seems random, but from time to time there will be a pattern... not throughout all the shuffles but between a few here and there
Lets not get into this or I will have people screaming rigged or wtf are you saying etc.

If you don't want to get into that... it's better to just not bring that up... it's just too damn complicated...