Chip Up & Ship It (GGPoker, Spins recreational regular diary)

Hi Studentishe,
Welcome to PokerStrategy.com

I have been reading your posts from the start and I liked it a lot. Also I love how you made this graph and tables, looking at them it seems that you still struggle a bit at the $100 limit but you care crushing the rest of them. ♠_thumbsup:

What made you give up being a Pro? What kind of games did you played before?

Originally posted by Studentishe
Spin and go - is a great format. I like the speed and dynamicity, that you need to change strategies constantly depending on effective stacks, you need to play some spots with 100% range. The element that every time you register in the tournament there is a very small chance (but still there is one), that you will hit big, like really big. If you need any tips - let me know, gladly would help out

That small chance to hit big makes it extra tempting.
I tried it out yesterday. Did some 1$ sessions and it went well, then used the winnings to play 3$ and 5$. Went 7 for 18.
What shocked me the most was how short the sessions were. The longest session was 21 hands. Felt like a crapshoot sometimes but i had fun to be honest

On the downside. We Belgian players can't participate in leaderboards challenges and can't have rakeback deals.
Those 2 things were a big part of your profit. So it will probably be very difficult to beat spin&go without those 2 things.

Originally posted by mariussica88
I have been reading your posts from the start and I liked it a lot. Also I love how you made this graph and tables, looking at them it seems that you still struggle a bit at the $100 limit but you care crushing the rest of them. ♠_thumbsup:

Thanks for sharing feedback, I appreciate it! I wouldn't say I'm struggling at 100s limit, I have too little volume to judge yet. At the beginning, when I made a shots on this limit it was very painful to run under ChipEV. First attempt was when I played 20s and I had -12BI on 100s, that was equal to loosing 60BI on 20s. But just before finishing my challenge my actual won chips got back to ChipEV and now I'm quite happy with my 5% ROI over 300 tournaments. Still need to prove that I can keep at least 2-3% ROI over time.

Originally posted by mariussica88
What made you give up being a Pro? What kind of games did you played before?

I feel like this question deserves it's own post.

My short Poker Pro career started right after Uni. I discovered the game and fell in love with it. I won 300$ at one of the MTTs and received a job offer as a Front End developer. I weighted both options and decided to go with Poker option as I wanted to give it a chance and try to earn for a living playing the game.

My parents weren't quite happy with my choice and tried to influence me by having talks about risks of Poker Pro career, questioning if I did a correct choice and so on. Back then I was in love with the game and the idea of making big money fast and eventually my parents gave up and started supporting me in my pursuit. Within my Poker Pro career I tried different formats - MTTs, Cash, Fifty50 and MTSNGs. I even had a poker blog in Russian at the end of career

I had quite a good run back then, earning good money for my needs (~1-2K / month). But I was struggling creating a systematic approach. The biggest downside that I felt back then is the fact that Poker Pro prime time for session was in the evenings / nights especially on the weekends. That is when all my friends hanged out, and the time when I was available (workdays, 9:00 - 18:00) my friends were busy at work. That harmed my social life quite hard.

A big hit for my Poker Pro career was Black Friday. I was playing mainly on FullTilt back then and when it went down I lost my 4.5K bankroll. That was a first hit. I recovered it partly in the next few month, but another issue emerged - I became very tilty. Some times I could be upset and loose 40-60% of the bankroll in attempt to "win it back" at the end of negative session I would climb 1 or 2 limits up and do all "classic" tilt moves.

The very end of my career came when I lost my bankroll 2 times within 2 months (due to poor BRM and tilt moves ):
1. First time I borrowed 1K from my sister and could win +1.2K within a month to pay her back and have my BR back.
2. Second time I borrowed 1K from my mom and lost it eventually.

After serious conversation with my girlfriend who supported me at that time I decided to find a real job. I had this idea in mind back then that I would earn money and come back to Poker. I was 26, had masters degree in economics and no work experience. I got my first job in Samsung R&D Ukraine as Junior developer and was very surprised with the level of engagement and motivation in department. Coming from Poker where nothing happens when you do nothing I was shocked how many people are doing nothing in the office. I was quickly promoted to the Team Lead role within 3 months and my career in IT started there...

With that being said, now I actually understand what my parents tried to say to me back in a day. After working in different companies and having different roles I now firmly believe that world would be a much better place if all people aimed their efforts to solve important and relevant problems. At the end of the day Poker is an entertainment for most people and doesn't create much added value. Now I wouldn't consider it as my profession, but really enjoy having it as a hobby and side hustle.

From finance prospective Poker is actually a very good activity. With my level of income, high taxes and my level of lif I manage to accumulate about 1-2K in saving every month. With poker being a side hustle generating additional 2K / month would speed up my wealth accumulation 2x and bring my retirement age much closer. That being said if I would manage to keep my profits same as during 1K->10K challenge it would speed-up 5x and this is real game changer.

Originally posted by H0witzer

Originally posted by Studentishe
On the downside. We Belgian players can't participate in leaderboards challenges and can't have rakeback deals.
Those 2 things were a big part of your profit. So it will probably be very difficult to beat spin&go without those 2 things.

This is a real bummer. So you don't have leaderboards and a fish buffet on GGPoker?
What good does regulation that restricts poker rooms to offer promotions and bonuses bring to people and society?

Originally posted by Studentishe
This is a real bummer. So you don't have leaderboards and a fish buffet on GGPoker?

Thats right, no fish buffet nor leaderboards/rake challenges for us. The only thing we can score is the badbeatjackpot on GG. We are allowed to play on 4 rooms atm: GG, PS, Unibet and Bwin.

Originally posted by Studentishe
What good does regulation that restricts poker rooms to offer promotions and bonuses bring to people and society?

None if u ask me.

I feel your pain, at least part of it.
When I read about regulations in Germany and 5.3% additional taxes that rooms have to pay from each buy-in that caused the removal of all rakeback on PS and an additional 3% rake from all tournaments winnings by Germans on GG I felt really bad. Like Germany already not making my life tough enough with its 42% taxes.
Then i have discovered 888Poker and it changed things around

Still don't understand how they manage to run operations in Germany profitably

The only format that doesn't care about rakeback and promos is MTT. ROI ~ 15-25%+ is very much achievable. It requires significant time commitments, though. Did you consider this format?

I really was wondering if it is possible to beat the BLASTs on 888 in longterm, because blindstructure is on x2 really fast. That are 1 minute blinds. But I think you proofed it.

I fortunately started from 10$ limit where stack sizes are 15bb (for 2x and 3x multipliers) and 25bb(for 5x multipliers) and there is descend amount of game to realise advantage. I tried playing 1$ when I got tickets for them and they are crazy. Rounds are fast stack sizes are smaller. It is essentially a Push/Fold practice with big rake and huge competition for leaderboard points. It still should be beatable, but don't have this experience

Next Challenge Options (Help needed)

Last 2 days I keep thinking about next challenge for myself and can't decide on what should it be. I have a few options in mind and can't decide which would be better choice. Setting big goal is quite a responsibility, because it implies commitment and if I commit to the wrong goal that can lead to failure, lost of motivation of just giving-up on the way. There are still chances of it happening when committing to the "right" goal, though. I've decided to lay it out here and ask you, my readers, to help / comment / vote on different options.

1. 10K -> 50K Challenge (aka "We need more gold")
This is a natural progression of the previous bankroll building challenge. Easy choice - update the number and off you go. ♠_cool:

Differences from the first challenge would be:
- I won't be reporting on the BR itself as I'll be doing regular cash-outs and won't keep the whole BR on the platform. So this would be more like a "40K profit challenge".
- In Germany there is a deposit limit of 1K / month and I won't be able to replenish BR in case of down-streak. I would need to come up with optimal amount to keep on the balance with minimum risk of ruin.
- In the first challenge I was doing shots for higher limit to settle there. This time the goal would be to stay on 100 level as this is the highest they have on 888Poker.
Projected completion time: 10-30 weeks. (Don't think it is doable within the same 5 weeks)

Pros:
- It fits nicely with my financial plans and hopes that I have for poker
- Almost SMART: Specific, measurable, attainable, relevant and not Time bound (may be adding a time bound there would

Cons:
- It is very result-oriented and I've learned that such goals are bad in poker. In the environment with lots of unknowns setting result-oriented goals can lead to negative results: tilt, loss of motivation, mental health issues and depression
- It has low "challenge" factor. The only question that it provides answer to is : "Can I (anyone) earn 40K playing BLASTs on 888Poker"? I think the answer is quite obvious, the only question is the time

The more process-oriented goals would be next 2

2. Play X amount of BLASTs with at least Y ChipEV on Z limit (aka "Beat the limit")
I saw such goals, challenges from another people.

Pros:
- Drives away focus from multipliers and hand runouts.
- Proves that I can beat Z limit with some level of confidence (chipEV)

Cons:
- It still has some level of uncertainty of what cards are dealt to you and opponent, tough it all goes away with bigger volume (X);
- I'm not sure that I'll be motivated by this goal even with very challenging X, Y and top Z;
- The most efficient strategy to achieve it would be to find combination of limit / time / day when there is more fish and less regs as playing with strong opponents would lover ChipEV.

3. Lower GTO Mistakes rate below X% over the last Y hands (aka "Learn the strategy")
This goal is actually what I'm thinking about lately a lot. It will require studying and analysis of the hand histories, mine and others, working with coaches (GTO oriented, like my current coach Nick and Ryan O'Donnell)

Pros:
- It is agnostic to the actual results run-outs and opponent line-ups;
- It will push to think in GTO terms: ranges, blockers, strategy, combos to properly classify situation and make max GTOScore move;
- It does challenges me. At the moment I'm not sure if I'd ever be able to reach level below 5%;

Cons:
- Conflicting situations will happen where exploitative (more profitable) action choice would conflict with GTO choice. In this cases challenge commitment would play a role to lean towards the second. Of course, when opponent is sitting out I would raise and steal the blinds. I won't play GTO there, like ever. I should find the way to classify (mark) those hands and filter them out.
- It completely leaves out limit as neither rake, opponent skills or BR play a role here. The only requirement - to have enough money to keep playing.

What do you think about those 3 options or maybe you have another interesting goal in mind for me?

Let me know. I would appreciate any feedback or input from you.

If u can reach 50K before the end of 2023 that would be sick.
Maybe it's a good time now with your current rakeback deal + the leaderboards running.
And set yourself a safe limit per stake so you cant go broke.

Originally posted by H0witzer
If u can reach 50K before the end of 2023 that would be sick.
Maybe it's a good time now with your current rakeback deal + the leaderboards running.
And set yourself a safe limit per stake so you cant go broke.

All are good points, thanks.
Indeed, the current availability of Leaderboards and therefore high rakeback can change over time with more people competing for prizes or Germans being removed from this promotion, this needs to be used fully while it is still available. The end of 2023 would introduce the needed "Time Bound factor" to make this goal SMART and safe limit or BRM rules is something that I need to set for myself to ensure I can last long enough to overcome downswings.

What do you mean by high rakeback for germans on 888? I am from germany too and also playing on 888, but cashgame. Do not know about high rakeback. Where to get that promotion?

Originally posted by Kostja007
What do you mean by high rakeback for germans on 888? I am from germany too and also playing on 888, but cashgame. Do not know about high rakeback. Where to get that promotion?

I mean Leaderboards for BLAST games. They don't call it a rakeback, but I do )) As all money in the form of bonuses and promotions that are coming back to players outside of winnings at the tables can be considered as rakeback. BLAST leaderboards are available for Germans and as I recently learned from H0witzer it is not the case for all countries.

If you'll look at the math:
- 10s Daily Leaderboard: 1st place gets 24x10 tickets and the result of the 10 games qualifies for the leaderboards. With 8.1% rake per game that potentially means that you can achieve 240 / 8.1 = 2900% rakeback.
- 20s & 50s Daily Leaderboard is combined for 2 limits, 30 games score qualifies to the result and the maximum price is 10x 50 tickets. With 7.7% rake on 20s limit you can achieve 500 / (1.54 * 30) = 1082% rakeback

Surely, people don't run that sick every day, and on lower Leaderboards amount of people competing for the prices is big, but I have managed to get in total 3,78K from Leaderboards last month with 4.22K paid in the rake, which resulted in 89.6% rakeback.

One sick run, that I saw last month was from "DameDePique9". They could take down both first places for 20&50 and 100s Leaderboards at the same day. Money was doubled that month and he (or she) took home $2400 in bonuses that day. It is like an additional chance of hitting a big multiplier, provided by 888Poker.

I don't know about the cash, but seems that they don't have similar offer for cash players. Consider moving into BLASTS - it is fast, it is fun, it is profitable!

My challenge was highlighted in the front page of PokerStrategy News feed:

I'm glad, I'm flattered, I'm recognized. That means quite a lot to me! At the end, why do we all play poker? To prove something, to challenge ourselves, to earn money? Well, I guess everyone has his/her own reasons. I play poker because... Yeah, I'm drunk right now and I'll reflect on this question a bit later...

We have a spa center in the neighborhood - https://www.vabali.de/berlin/. I plan to spend the whole day tomorrow there to recover from poker, poker, and work stuff...

Originally posted by Studentishe
Next Challenge Options (Help needed)

Last 2 days I keep thinking about next challenge for myself and can't decide on what should it be. I have a few options in mind and can't decide which would be better choice. Setting big goal is quite a responsibility, because it implies commitment and if I commit to the wrong goal that can lead to failure, lost of motivation of just giving-up on the way. There are still chances of it happening when committing to the "right" goal, though. I've decided to lay it out here and ask you, my readers, to help / comment / vote on different options.

1. 10K -> 50K Challenge (aka "We need more gold")
This is a natural progression of the previous bankroll building challenge. Easy choice - update the number and off you go. ♠_cool:

Differences from the first challenge would be:
- I won't be reporting on the BR itself as I'll be doing regular cash-outs and won't keep the whole BR on the platform. So this would be more like a "40K profit challenge".
- In Germany there is a deposit limit of 1K / month and I won't be able to replenish BR in case of down-streak. I would need to come up with optimal amount to keep on the balance with minimum risk of ruin.
- In the first challenge I was doing shots for higher limit to settle there. This time the goal would be to stay on 100 level as this is the highest they have on 888Poker.
Projected completion time: 10-30 weeks. (Don't think it is doable within the same 5 weeks)

Pros:
- It fits nicely with my financial plans and hopes that I have for poker
- Almost SMART: Specific, measurable, attainable, relevant and not Time bound (may be adding a time bound there would

Cons:
- It is very result-oriented and I've learned that such goals are bad in poker. In the environment with lots of unknowns setting result-oriented goals can lead to negative results: tilt, loss of motivation, mental health issues and depression
- It has low "challenge" factor. The only question that it provides answer to is : "Can I (anyone) earn 40K playing BLASTs on 888Poker"? I think the answer is quite obvious, the only question is the time

The more process-oriented goals would be next 2

2. Play X amount of BLASTs with at least Y ChipEV on Z limit (aka "Beat the limit")
I saw such goals, challenges from another people.

Pros:
- Drives away focus from multipliers and hand runouts.
- Proves that I can beat Z limit with some level of confidence (chipEV)

Cons:
- It still has some level of uncertainty of what cards are dealt to you and opponent, tough it all goes away with bigger volume (X);
- I'm not sure that I'll be motivated by this goal even with very challenging X, Y and top Z;
- The most efficient strategy to achieve it would be to find combination of limit / time / day when there is more fish and less regs as playing with strong opponents would lover ChipEV.

3. Lower GTO Mistakes rate below X% over the last Y hands (aka "Learn the strategy")
This goal is actually what I'm thinking about lately a lot. It will require studying and analysis of the hand histories, mine and others, working with coaches (GTO oriented, like my current coach Nick and Ryan O'Donnell)

Pros:
- It is agnostic to the actual results run-outs and opponent line-ups;
- It will push to think in GTO terms: ranges, blockers, strategy, combos to properly classify situation and make max GTOScore move;
- It does challenges me. At the moment I'm not sure if I'd ever be able to reach level below 5%;

Cons:
- Conflicting situations will happen where exploitative (more profitable) action choice would conflict with GTO choice. In this cases challenge commitment would play a role to lean towards the second. Of course, when opponent is sitting out I would raise and steal the blinds. I won't play GTO there, like ever. I should find the way to classify (mark) those hands and filter them out.
- It completely leaves out limit as neither rake, opponent skills or BR play a role here. The only requirement - to have enough money to keep playing.

What do you think about those 3 options or maybe you have another interesting goal in mind for me?

Let me know. I would appreciate any feedback or input from you.

Nice options, i would love each goal and follow it. I think you should the one that feels best. You have experience and by reading your blog time investement is not always easy (happy wife, happy life).

Originally posted by Fredjen
Nice options, i would love each goal and follow it. I think you should the one that feels best. You have experience and by reading your blog time investement is not always easy (happy wife, happy life).

"Happy wife, happy life" - I'll store it in my dictionary, very well said.

I think all options are good, but before committing to achieving any goal I try to make sure it is the well thought-through goal. The worth thing one can do is to set the wrong goal, and pursue it with all the efforts just to realize, that it wasn't the right goal when it is achieved. Happened to me a couple of times in my life

After some consideration and a day off in SPA center, I've decided to set a next goal in the BR Building Challange thread

It is a continuation of my previous challenge 1K->10K->50K. Following @H0witzer's recommendation I agree that it would be cool to achieve it by the end of 2023. So here it is - 40K profit in 28 weeks. That means around 1.5K on average per week, which is very much doable.

For the other 2 goals that I have listed as potential candidates: 2nd (around ChipEv) doesn't make sense to me - it is dry, it is not sexy, it has no soul and I'll just drop it. As for the 3d goal I love it, I'd like to use it internally and on smaller time frames (weekly basis) so that it would organize my training routine around hitting a "sweet spot" of below 5% error rate by GTO.

So here it is - long-term goal 40K in profits, short-term goal (this week) to decrease wrong plays per GTOWizard below 13%. Wish me luck

Great start of the week and challenge!