Why shoving with TT after 3bet?

Joined: 12.03.2009

02.05.2010, 16:43 0

Hello!

in the SHC says that we can go all-in with TT+ and AK when we made a raise PF and then received a 3bet. the people who created the SSS estimated a 3% average range of 3bet in the lowest limits. that is, our opponents make 3bet with JJ+/AK, in average.

If I open raise with TT in middle position, and then for example the CO 3bets, the pot is:

1,5bb (small blind and big blind)
4bb (my raise)
20bb (CO 3bet)
= 25,5bb

I have 16bb left, which gives me pot odds of 25.5:16 = 1.59:1

with that pot odds, my break even equity is 100/2.59 = 38.61

the equilator says that TT has 33.65% probability of winning against a JJ+/AK range... so, why do we shove TT when it's equity is inferior to the break even equity?

9 replies

FishDan11

Joined: 27.02.2009

Posts: 50

02.05.2010, 17:22 0

You pose a very good question I have also wondered about... I'm looking forward to hearing some opinions

MancaMulas

Joined: 12.03.2009

Posts: 4,181

02.05.2010, 17:29 0

Originally posted by FishDan11
You pose a very good question I have also wondered about... I'm looking forward to hearing some opinions

If the average 3bet percentage that was estimated for the micro-limits is JJ+/AK, I think that the answer should be to get out of the way with TT!

TT x JJ -> we're screwed
TT x QQ -> we're screwed
TT x KK -> we're screwed
TT x AA -> we're screwed
TT x AK -> coin flip

we're screwed most of the times!!!

veriz

Joined: 20.07.2008

Posts: 64,009

02.05.2010, 17:34 0

It's because the range is often times wider, not only JJ+, AK for example if you put such range: 88+,AJs+,AKo
You get 46,09% equity as you can see you are getting your equity.
Only reason why we can fold here is if we have good reads on the opponent and we expect him to raise with only that range. From my own experience I usually raise with such range because I have played SSS myself. Also while I used to play SSS I saw a lot of 3bets being in such range as I put there. So more often it's opponents dependent. Also later on you will start playing with your own range and not the chart you are given, the chart is just a smallish help for beginners to start with.

Gerv

Joined: 07.05.2008

Posts: 11,641

03.05.2010, 13:45 0

On uNL people see AQ as a huge monster as well

Equity Win Tie Loss Hand
Player 1: 47.020 % 46.817 % 0.408 % 52.776 % TT
Player 2: 52.980 % 52.776 % 0.408 % 46.817 % JJ, AQs+, AKo

Twitter (eSports/MTG): @Gerv055

caltabiano

Joined: 09.03.2007

Posts: 1,950

03.05.2010, 22:21 0

Originally posted by MancaMulas
Why shoving with TT after 3bet?

Because TT is the nuts (as Gerv mathematically proved)

_Anonymous_

13.07.2010, 05:52 0

Hi Gerv,

Shouldn't we consider JJ+, AQs+, AKo instead of JJ, AQs+, AKo ?? Villain can very well hold QQ, KK, AA as well

Things become different now...

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 35.516% 35.31% 00.20% 159637896 911046.00 { TT }
Hand 1: 64.484% 64.28% 00.20% 290588268 911046.00 { JJ+, AQs+, AKo }

Gerv

Joined: 07.05.2008

Posts: 11,641

13.07.2010, 11:52 0

I think stove just screwed me but yes you are right Still you see that you have the equity to call

Twitter (eSports/MTG): @Gerv055

gadget51

Joined: 23.06.2008

Posts: 5,622

13.07.2010, 12:02 0

They'll shove KTo 56s JTo ( a favourite), etc etc etc, to get you to fold. Just call and move on, win or lose.

My blog: NSFW Language (Push the Limits).

_Anonymous_

22.07.2010, 14:50 0

Because many people like to slowplay KK-AA, so you should be able to quit one of this ones. And then, you might have your 38% of equity.

Also, this is a very very basic SHC so you should try to use a more advanced strategy if you want to get profit. This is just for learning the buttons. And if you know what means equity, use a more advanced strategy.

His range might be JJ-KK AQ+ or sth like that.

[Closed] Why shoving with TT after 3bet?