[Closed] 400 semi bluff 2 streets 230bb deep, c/c R vs very polarized range?

Hi,

I don't know that much about FR as I only play SH but 15/10/1,9 looks very tight - nitty to me. So I wouldn't mind a fold preflop that deep, because you can't 3-bet.
As played: Your ch/r on flop is too small that deep, make it 79-85$ oop.
When you get called the turn is clear c/f to me, because he'll never fold anything on that turn with which he called on flop.
Same goes for river, just c/f. I wouldn't expect that type of opponent to have a hand that you beat. I can't even imagine one single hand which this particular villain can play that way.
You loose way too often to 77, 99, KK, AA, QJs, (AK).

What did he have.

Best regards,
Anin

12% open in EP is pretty 'loose' in fr + given his flop action+timing tells im 90% sure he never has 77/99/KK here and also very sure he wont vbet AK/AA on the end

But I do agree turn is probably c/f, my reasoning was: majority of his range is probably one pair heavy which i can bluff on many rivers. If its a different river I c/f unless I hit a T or 8 because I really think that his betting range on river is much weaker than his checking behind range

Wow, can´t believe you made such call on river. ♦ Actually, I can´t see better way how to play 77 or 99 in his shoes.

If I were him and had 77 and 99 I would definitely open preflop and Cbet/call flop. Why should he 3bet flop IP? That would totally suck, cause it looks too strong, bet/call flop IP has much more potential to get your money imo. Especially that deep you would be extremely cautious (=folding flop) vs his 3bet flop with all your hands except top pair .

Turn I like his call with set IP as well. He does not need to protect so much and he can let you barrel (which works ♦).

So I disagree with your read that he almost never has a set there.

River looks like normal value bet from him. I can´t see him bluffing such river very often and you only have a T.

Similarly to Anin, I would c/f turn and always give up on river.

Originally posted by Joenaes
Preflop I could 3bet I guess because we are so deep but I didnt do it because his wtsd is pretty high, so I wasnt sure if he is too bluffable postflop.

So why do we bluff him on turn with an intention to bluff him on river?

Originally posted by Joenaes
If its a different river I c/f unless I hit a T or 8 because I really think that his betting range on river is much weaker than his checking behind range

Agreed, that his betting range is polarized. What did he have?

...

PF:// call is ok, 3bet if u have some good reads as well

F:// think c/c is a lot better here. dont like this c/r at all. for: 1, size (u re deep- u have to r to 80+ at least to build up the pot-also w a value hand) 2, ur hand has 3 outs drawing to the nuts with plenty of reverse imp odds. This board is so drawy, that i cannot see him folding any Kx by the R ever, if fd misses. 3, if he just cbetted with air, like underpair, T is mostly c,c and u take it down anyway, u dont have to bluff that much with initiative right from F. Ur valuerange is very narrow in comparison and he ll always continue with every single draw ip deep and will be able to bluff u when u both miss (ok-u counted with this: so u made a hc on R which given a read might be good, but generally in deeper play u need to have hands which are drawing stronger when u re going to play oop for a c/r, fe: so that u can also make fe thinvbets on T, when u hit some 2nd pairs when his range is likely to have improved as well.

so this F with the T play (rly no feq on the bet) is rly kinda wasted money for very little to no feq. as an alternative u could c/r the T as well, but the problem already is ur stupid sizing on F. while it makes sense to c/r F big for value and c/r T then smaller, coz u re ready to shove ok STP ratio on R, here it would look more of a draw coz u would have to r a bit bigger like u re wanting the feq + again: the draw is just a bit too weak to do it with equitywise. Ofc the thing is: if he has a strong hand on T while u made it big on F and c/r like 2.5x on T only, if u calculate the leverage well it puts him into a superpressure situation of shove/fold on T there coz he can feel like u re committed already and it also looks like u re going to like always shove the R there. (this is a question tho for a seperate novel which cards u should bluff in these spots, depending on positions, opp reads, who was behind PF, so how likely is he to have wider range.. u should NOT bluff 100% of cards.

since i dont like F, nor T, i dont rly feel emotionally attached to this R guessing game, standard.

also: u usually don't have a strong river c/c range, so why should he bet that much. Doesnt make sense. He gets the folds with a smaller bet as often as with this bet - ergo: his betsize should mean a strong hand.

This obv doesnt apply, if he doesnt think that way.

Originally posted by TribunCaesar
also: u usually don't have a strong river c/c range, so why should he bet that much. Doesnt make sense. He gets the folds with a smaller bet as often as with this bet - ergo: his betsize should mean a strong hand.

This obv doesnt apply, if he doesnt think that way.

You could also put it this way obv: why would he bet for value so big if my range is weak anyways?

Anyways, I saw you were playing some 200 FR lately as well, gl at the tables

Edit: but ofc I think I played the hand badly on F and T
He had AQdd btw

Originally posted by Joenaes
He had AQdd btw

Wow !

Originally posted by Joenaes

Originally posted by TribunCaesar
also: u usually don't have a strong river c/c range, so why should he bet that much. Doesnt make sense. He gets the folds with a smaller bet as often as with this bet - ergo: his betsize should mean a strong hand.

This obv doesnt apply, if he doesnt think that way.

You could also put it this way obv: why would he bet for value so big if my range is weak anyways?

Anyways, I saw you were playing some 200 FR lately as well, gl at the tables

Edit: but ofc I think I played the hand badly on F and T
He had AQdd btw

Yeah, I always play rush when I am not in the mood for real poker.
gl to you as well

A few things to point out.. waiting for comments and common analysis

I'd like to discuss another aspect of this interesting hand. The board in, in fact, wet. Due to abundance of draws, aggresive line OOP may not be the best strategy as noted before.

The case is also that we have one of the weakest draws and we essentially dont have as many outs. We know this is not very likely, but in general playing weaker draws among drawy boards with multiple drawing opportunities makes us strongly overrep our hand.

Given that, when we face aggression, I think earlier mucking of marginal holding is also possible. On the contrary, our draw is characterized by greater implied odds than the flush draw.