Is this real??

Originally posted by vmarqui

Originally posted by Zhusy

Originally posted by sinsas

Originally posted by Zhusy

Originally posted by b0b01111
ty guys..i would mind to play a bot to..would be imposible to program it to play solid

You could get surprised.... bots indeed could be made crushing anyone HU.

zero chance, any bot against decent NL100-200 reg would be destroyed

They said that for chess too...

But lets say as a coder I think a decently coded bot would be more then capable to crush nl200 tables. There are too many aspects that someone needs to consider. The 2000 code lines bots that are on the micro limit tables just can't be compared to what someone could make. I am talking about something different not about the current bots been abused by randoms.

i don't think so. maybe nl50 at most, but nl200? regs use their brain there. btw all the bots i've seen were breakeven or losers nl5-10 players

You would be shocked... there are many things you don't know and I think it's better most people don't know it.

Also as for FTP that they "ignored" the bots is true. It's impossible for bots to work for 2 years and then after a website like PTR releases info about bots, suddenly FTP bans bot accounts, but until then, nothing? I mean lets be more obvious?

Originally posted by matel17
I think these will somehow be blocked by the sites then someone will find a way around it, and the sites will again make the effort to block the new technologies.. and so on.

My guess is that a bot for chess is easier because there is no unknown or missing information. (I have seen people beating the computer at chess after months of trial and error!) And a creative poker player will probably go around the codes anyway!

Games of complete information like chess are much easier to beat using raw computing power than games of incomplete information like poker.

Maybe the poker room should change to GO chess. ♦
I read it somewhere it'd need a hundread years to make a bot that could beat a pro like chess. I think poker are like GO because there are too many possibilities what one's move means, pattern, missing information, etc... though probably not as complex as GO. Anyway making a bot that do ev+ only wouldn't do much.

PS: Try to enumerate FR(full) in equilab to find equity. How long do you think it'd take?

http://betting.betfair.com/poker/poker-strategy/what-makes-poker-so-special-131210.html

bots own they dont tilt or spew

Originally posted by jbpatzer
http://betting.betfair.com/poker/poker-strategy/what-makes-poker-so-special-131210.html

Probably true

I made post incl. link (sorry purple didn't know it was not allowed), and it basically says that bots rulled last year over the largest poker sites. There is one quote from there, since I don't want to copy/paste whole article without asking the autor: "The worrying thing was the bots were winning at the 50nl to 200nl levels. It had profited $53,000 over 8.3 million hands and that’s not accounting for the additional VIP bonuses which would make at least $50,000 on top of this".

"So what online poker rooms do these poker bot sites state are usable with their poker bot software: Full Tilt Poker , PokerStars , Sportsbook Poker, Cake Poker, Absolute Poker , hollywood poker, Ultimatebet , pokertime, wsex poker, pokerroom.com , coral , eurobet poker, littlewoods poker, william hill poker, inter poker, poker plex, sun poker, unibet, crazy poker, intertops, doylesroom. 22 sites in total, but I think it should be more if you factor in the different skins on certain networks like Cake and Ongame which have over 70 different skins in total."

Somebody should write an article here at PS definitely about that stuff. They should do some research and inform us. People start mentioning here, at forum, how it is not a problem, bc you can take advantage of bots. I do not agree. I belive that most of bots are bad, but top pf them are good. Kids that write theese programs are higly tech-intelligent, and there are some large forums where they discuss their strategy, and learn from each other.

It is just matter of time, when average bot will be good enough too beat up to NL100. Evolution of poker player is slow comparring the evolution of technology.

Last thought is that even if those bots are B/E, they do have RB/VIP back. So, they are +EV. Why should we bother if we could just open few different accounts and start xxx computers from different IPs and lean back?

Don't underestimate kids that know better about computer programing, than you would ever think, or some MIT student who wants to pay scholarship and drive a nice car.

Even so, how common can they really be? And how can you know?

I still think they are easily detectable. These things would probably be playing for an insanely inhuman amount of time at a stretch.

Originally posted by matel17
Even so, how common can they really be? And how can you know?

I still think they are easily detectable. These things would probably be playing for an insanely inhuman amount of time at a stretch.

Rooms can detect most of them, if they want to ofc. I mean they do make so much rake. But, modern bot programs are much more sofisticated. People who make them know methods that every room uses to detect. They won't let them run24/7, they won't log in/out each of them at the same time, they do not use same timing patterns...

Originally posted by ihufa
Im a bot and i crush pretty much everything

Yes, but not a very efficient one. Your programmer obviously forgot to install "no web browsing and mindless trolling v4.0" on your hard drive.

Originally posted by Tim64

Originally posted by ihufa
Im a bot and i crush pretty much everything

Yes, but not a very efficient one. Your programmer obviously forgot to install "no web browsing and mindless trolling v4.0" on your hard drive.

Ouch! Why are you all so mean to ihufa. Oh yes. Sorry. Forgot for a minute.

Originally posted by jbpatzer

Originally posted by Tim64

Originally posted by ihufa
Im a bot and i crush pretty much everything

Yes, but not a very efficient one. Your programmer obviously forgot to install "no web browsing and mindless trolling v4.0" on your hard drive.

Ouch! Why are you all so mean to ihufa. Oh yes. Sorry. Forgot for a minute.

Because we him.

My programmer also gave me a pretty horrible PLO game that autojoins HU tables i shouldn't be on :f_biggrin:

don't worry, when bots beat us in holdem, we will still have omaha. and when bots beat omaha, we won't care because we are going to have more important things to think about, like machines making a revolution to make humans their slaves.

they exist but are easy to beat....too predictable

Originally posted by ManoloB99
Of course there are.

What would be a bot? Certainly not an R2D2 type behind a keyboard. But how difficult would it be for someone with some programming skills to develop a program that reads hole cards and flopped cards and reacts accordingly?.

Actually.. i can't even imagine on starting to make a profitable poker bot. There's so many factors that would have to go into every single hand that it takes a ridiculous amount of coding to make a good poker bot. And even more to fine tune it.

Exept from good programming skills you'd actually need to be a good poker player yourself. Since if you don't know how to play good poker how are you going to teach a program that needs to be told every single little thing to do something how to play poker?

How about a bot that plays massive amount of micro turbo SnGs using equilibrium calculations (optimal push-fold?)

Originally posted by AugustusCaesar
How about a bot that plays massive amount of micro turbo SnGs using equilibrium calculations (optimal push-fold?)

Quite easy really. But the edge in these is already really really small. And the variance is insane. So having your numbers off even slightly would probably result in you losing money. But since it's mostly push/fold it's not that hard to make a decent one.

You could use chubukov to figure out at the very least what the bot should push/fold from the SB. and then increase it from there. Playing from the BB and postflop situations would be a lot more difficult though.

Questions that bot needs to answer for optimal preflop strategy from bb:
what range are you shoving with if the person limps?
What range are you raising with if the person limps?
What range are you checking with if the person limps?
what range are you shoving with if the person raises?
what range are you folding with if the person raises?
what range are you calling with if the person raises?
What range are you calling with if the person shoves? (other hands are fold)
What are the effective stacks? all ranges need to be adjusted according to the effective stacks and stats of opponent(only high volume of hands).
Do you have any fold equity? if yes/no ranges should be adjusted.
And you'd need to tell the bot how much to raise and how much bb he's calling in all those specific spots.

It's easy to see that if you shove way more against limps this would be quite abuse able since people could limp good hands. Figuring out the correct ranges for this is already quite difficult if you ask me. You basically need to have like 50+ different ranges from the BB. For the effective stacks 1-10BB. (They don't all have to be much different.)

Postflop is a different story al together though. And it would be quite difficult to be profitable postflop. As players can play very unexpected. You couldn't ever play fit or fold and would need to call light as players would be bluffing much much more.

edit: I just realised that a post like this might not be allowed. I'm not trying to give advice on how to make a poker bot. And i do not encourage it in anyway. Just made this post to show even in a relatively simple format like superturbo headsups it takes ALOT of work to even code just preflop play. These are basic questions anyone with some common sense and a little programming experience realises need to be answered. Delete the post however if it's not allowed.

Originally posted by Hahaownedlolz
what range are you shoving with if the person limps?
What range are you raising with if the person limps?
What range are you checking with if the person limps?
what range are you shoving with if the person raises?
what range are you folding with if the person raises?
what range are you calling with if the person raises?
What range are you calling with if the person shoves? (other hands are fold)
What are the effective stacks? all ranges need to be adjusted according to the effective stacks and stats of opponent(only high volume of hands).
Do you have any fold equity? if yes/no ranges should be adjusted.
And you'd need to tell the bot how much to raise and how much bb he's calling in all those specific spots.

It's easy to see that if you shove way more against limps this would be quite abuse able since people could limp good hands. Figuring out the correct ranges for this is already quite difficult if you ask me. You basically need to have like 50+ different ranges from the BB. For the effective stacks 1-10BB. (They don't all have to be much different.)

Postflop is a different story al together though. And it would be quite difficult to be profitable postflop. As players can play very unexpected. You couldn't ever play fit or fold and would need to call light as players would be bluffing much much more.

Well I have quite some experience with the super/hyper turbos on micros
- there is no postflop play (you start with max. 25 BB, there are antes and the limits last 2 mins)
- if they limp they are almost always very stupid, if I am BB and SB limps I shove almost 100%
- shove calling and reshoving ranges are also calculateable
- if you play properly you never get into spots with no FE (except like if you loose allin and are left with very few chips etc.)
- abusability - there are so many players on the micros that ever a reg does not meet with others that much, so I never considered this a problem
- and the ranges .. hmm I dont thing that they are that difficult .. at least when I was playing, SnG wizard had a good idea about thm and also there was a site (i dont remember) that could calculate nash-equlibrium ranges for any situation