Monkeymode: I like to move it move it

Originally posted by bjela
Hey I wanted to ask that ♦ Also the same question for PLO SH (I'm guessing Gabinr's question was for NLHE.

The thing that struck me the most reading the past couple of pages was your answer to vonki. It simply blew my mind, how much it applies to me. Should I send you some money for that lesson or what? ♦

Yes, contact me on skype and we can discuss details

Originally posted by THESHade

Originally posted by bjela
Hey I wanted to ask that ♦ Also the same question for PLO SH (I'm guessing Gabinr's question was for NLHE.

The thing that struck me the most reading the past couple of pages was your answer to vonki. It simply blew my mind, how much it applies to me. Should I send you some money for that lesson or what? ♦

Yes, contact me on skype and we can discuss details

thnxalot 4 managing that sir!

Originally posted by Gabinr1
Volumewise question: TT, how many hands do you think a pro player should play at a minimun/month and an optimal volume? which should be considered great volume. Also, how many tables of SH do you usually play at the same time? What's your take on this (number of tables)?

as always, ofc it all depends. if u rly only focus on playing, not coaching on the side or sports professionally or studying at uni or having a job u can put in way more volume ofc than sb who also has other projects running at the same time.

but to give some overall numbers: what i think is rly decent as a pro (per month)

nlhe fr, any limits: 150k hands

nlhe sh, midstakes: 80k hands

nlhe hu, midstakes: 20k hands

plo sh, midstakes: 60k hands

plo hu, midstakes: 15k hands

expect fr (where u can even masstable 400-1k), im talking about playing 6-9 tables sh and 1-2 tables hu.

i personally play
- 6-12 tables plo sh (9 is best for me, 12 only if i dont know which one to quit cuz they're all soft)
- 1-4 tables nlhe hu
- 1-2 tables plo hu

and in the rare event i play nlhe sh, it depends on stakes. 400-2k i try to only play 4-8 tables.

if i feel like nl200 sh grinding, i dont mind 18 tables

Originally posted by TwiceT

Spoiler

Originally posted by Gerv
Tell me how in the blue hell you balanced Poker with life when you were in Dublin or how I should do it precisely... I think if I am going to live there, there is suddenly 300% more things to do than wherever I lived before (yes including vienna)

I'm not quite scared but a bit defensive towards unknown stuff so if you can enlighten me that would be great =D

poker related:

Gerv;138142
Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $2(BB) Replayer
SB ($319)
BB ($421)
Hero ($345)
UTG+1 ($200)
CO ($223)
BTN ($202)

Dealt to Hero 9♦ 9♣

Hero raises to $7, fold, fold, fold, SB calls $6, BB calls $5

FLOP ($21) 4♦ 3♦ 4♥

SB bets $15.75, BB calls $15.75, Hero calls $15.75

TURN ($68.25) 4♦ 3♦ 4♥ 8♠

SB bets $34.12, BB calls $34.12, Hero calls $34.12

RIVER ($170) 4♦ 3♦ 4♥ 8♠ J♥

SB bets $170, BB folds, Hero ?

SB plays

No reads nor any reads on his donking range

BB plays 21/12, pretty standard running hot girl - I perceive him/her calling TT-JJ as well pre,post,Turn but I got absolute position on her (HAHAHA how nice.)

Since there are many draws busted, we need 33% and him having the nuts is also halved since sometimes he would check those, we have to call?

Is there any merits of raising the Turn for value given the ranges of the players? I put BB also not on a particular stronge range on the Turn

Snapcall?

@ hand. i think flop call is good. turn half pot bet. hm, if i had JJ-AA i might value raise and raise for free sd. 99 seems a bit thin now that also 88 beats us.

SB bets 3/4 on flop, 1/2 on turn and 1/1 on river.

so flop can mean anything. trips, fd, overpairs

turn i think we can rule out trips. he would play bigger. so i put him on 88+ or a strange airball like Ah5h, Ah2h.

river he pots. i dont see that line with a bluff all that often. i would give him 88 or JJ. im not afraid of4x. could he have QQ-AA? anyway, we just dont beat enough imo. 1/2 turn bet i dont think he has sooooo many fd. i dont think overall we are good one in 3 on the river. i would fold.
but it must be close. maybe im wrong here folding. but overall i would feel pretty good about a fold on paper. ofc timing tells and a feeling for the gameflow in game helps me a lot. just from the hh, i like folding

mm ok so you errr more on folding but you give him a very thin valuerange here. I wouldn't say he got 88s as he would bomb it on the Turn. it depends how we perceive his 1 pot, 1/2 pot sizing but either way, I don't think his range can be both 88 and JJ but more OR/OR

Anyways I quote other players:
200NL/400NL reg:
I wouldn't fold the turn to this betsize actually, I'd assume now that any nutted hand the BB has is now about to raise, and we discount TT+ from PF. River, you say he's a fish but then that you have no reads? Like, what's his VPIP ? Many 4s in his range just looking at the raw number ?

On the whole I want to call. We're not good 50% which is what our brain in it's perception of black (wrong) and white (right) would like us to have to call, but gut tells me we have at least 33 % ........

& Another MSNL reg:
i like turn call vs. that betsizing.

id call river basically for the reasons you stated. draws missed, his value range is extremely tiny. also, i think the half pot bet on the turn doesn't make sense with 4x into two people with a FD on board, so that should discount that hand even more. yes, his bluffing frequency will be smaller into two people, but i don't think that is outweighed by all the other factors. i mean, he's a fish, he could just so easily be thinking "they'd raise me with a big hand earlier, BABOOMBA, CHIPS AWAY!" rather than "shit, it's hard to get two people to fold here"

They are American and more on the splashy side but I was so erring to call because it is so random and he might use a lot of cards on the river to continue his bluff

i abs agree with their reasoning, makes perfect sense. however, the 2/3 click, 1/2 and 1/1 betsizing leads me personally to believe (just from my experience vs all different kind of fish) that he doesnt bluff the river one in three.

i do say tho, i usually base my desicions a lot on timing and dynamic (what happened hands before etc).

if i am playing this hand at table, i would feel much more comfortable giving a more accurate answer.

i also do agree, that a fold can probably be a bigger mistake than a call on the river as played, simply cuz u get 2:1. u just need to be good one in 3 to be and on paper fd and gs are busted.

overall thats not a spot u print money either way. super close. im more in the fold camp tho

1) talking about PLO HU midstakes (PLO100 - 200 for example), how many hands should I consider in order to understand if I am a winning player or not due to the variance?

2) In the last days I had many problems with PLO HU fishy players who played something like 95/80 and did not fold to any cbet (something like 8 fold after 70 cbet), this because I cannot put them on a range and it's even harder for me to get value on turn- river just because every card can potentially give them something

Have you ever encountered this problem?

Originally posted by elfigus
1) talking about PLO HU midstakes (PLO100 - 200 for example), how many hands should I consider in order to understand if I am a winning player or not due to the variance?

2) In the last days I had many problems with PLO HU fishy players who played something like 95/80 and did not fold to any cbet (something like 8 fold after 70 cbet), this because I cannot put them on a range and it's even harder for me to get value on turn- river just because every card can potentially give them something

Have you ever encountered this problem?

ad1) hm, i think 150k hands (2 months sample size) should give u a clear idea.

ad2) open a bit tighter. cbet waaaay tighter. once u started betting with your strong range, u just bet it hard (pot) and most streets for pure value. i do understand your problem. u can only focus on value betting and not bluffing (esp cbetting) at all. be patiened and get your value when u have hands. its tough for your mindset if he runs hot for 50 hands and there is nothing u can do. (and yes, i also encountered that prob and it was probably my biggest problem with plo hu. sometimes u just get destroyed by rly bad plrs in plo hu, nothing u can do. short term it can be rly frustrating)
but u need to keep in mind it could just take 2 hands to get his stack with vbetting 3 streets. patience and strong range on your part is important

tnk, I think one of the most important aspect in PLO HU which I started to visualize in the last sessions even if I played only 5k hands is that it's a frenetic game with SB really wide opening range, but at the same time you have to be extremely patient and focus 100% every hand because 1 hand can change everything, especially the river play is really really important if you and your opponent start to be a little bit deep than 100bb

Managing the frustration due to not hitting anything in 3bet pot against fish is really a big part of the game itself.. I have to keep on grinding eheh, tnk for the reply

UTG has 88% Fv3b + hoping some squeeze action ...
Instead get smth you don't get very often

BU = 20/15
SB = 18/11
BB = 51/23/6.7AF/48% AFq (sick turn and river overaggroness)

Guess there are many pairs (+gutter or so) / Ax's we could get value from, but at the same time I do not want to get much action on such a dry family board where I'd start leveling myself if I get c/r'd ("He might do it with 99+ coz it's so low and dry and family and wouldn't c/r with sets yadayada")

So better keep it small, see the turn action and not many cards that would scare us - only A / 4 (6 a bit as well)

SB checks again = mostly gives up
Aggrotard fires = doesn't mean anything
UTG folds
BU will very likely also fold since he didn't bet IP after getting checked to on the flop ... so basically we have the nuts

Esp vs this player, I should've actually raised the turn for value

River = so ugly, I place slightly under 50% vbet to get calls from 9x and other random stuff

Reasons I want to call =
Sick aggrotard (turn/river AF 12 and 63/52% freq)
Sick price, he might be even doing this with A9 for value or smth, I have very underrepped hand

Reasons I want to fold =
4x made it, turned gutter 78 made it, also some two pairs
Sizing = sizing is so sick, even though he is an aggrotard, I can't imagine him being capable of turning anything into a bluff or doing this with complete air with that sizing on this limit, so feels like 99% of the time I will see at least two pair going for thin value (hence the small raise) or the nuts trying to sqz a little value from whatever though I can't have much (hence the small sizing again).

Seems like ez fold, but I have suuuuch a hard time folding vs such tards getting nearly 4.5:1 ♦

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
SB ($61.62)
BB ($58.25)
UTG ($42.09)
UTG+1 ($80.37)
Hero ($54.25)
BTN ($61.74)

Dealt to Hero K♦ K♥

UTG raises to $1.50, fold, Hero calls $1.50, BTN calls $1.50, SB calls $1.25, BB calls $1

FLOP ($7.50) 3♣ 2♦ 5♥

SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, BTN checks

TURN ($7.50) 3♣ 2♦ 5♥ 9♠

SB checks, BB bets $3.50, UTG folds, Hero calls $3.50, BTN folds, SB folds

RIVER ($14.50) 3♣ 2♦ 5♥ 9♠ 6♣

BB checks, Hero bets $6.75, BB raises to $15, Hero tankfolds

river: u get 2,5:1. vs most fish, esp such an aggrotard i think calling river is best. the mistake can be bigger by folding than by calling.

lets start at the beginning:
pre: ok u have your reasons. flatting is fine

flop: 5way, low board. still a good board for u . i like my hand here. i def bet. dont see any other reason not to bet. your reasons for checking are bad. if u get c/r u deal with it at the time. mostly u fold cuz its 5way and they have a set. but that wont happen often. mostly they c/c other pairs. u get tons of value

turn: as played, i raise turn for value. still a good board for u, he bets small so no reason at all to believe u are behind. where in the hand did u think about getting value?!

Thanks, agreeing with everything you say.

I guess I made so many mistakes coz I rly haven't been in such spots - don't get to flat KK pre and play a 5 way hand vs a variety of opps very often.

Unexpected situation = didn't have a clear plan for it = mistakes

Originally posted by TwiceT
i stopped sleeping in dublin. u def need 20 hours a day for all the action

the answer to most questions in this thread ♠_cool:

I get lost sometimes in spot like this.

Villain is a maniac fish 40/25, don't have any clue how he plays postflop.

$0.50/$1 Ante $0.20 No Limit Holdem
5 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($422.15)
CO ($286.05)
Alverine (BTN) ($195.45)
SB ($465.50)
BB ($215.05)

Pre-Flop: ($2.50, 5 players) Alverine is BTN A♠ K♦
1 fold, CO calls $1, Alverine raises to $5, SB calls $4.50, 1 fold, CO calls $4

Flop: A♦ 2♦ 7♠ ($17, 3 players)
SB checks, CO checks, Alverine bets $9.65, SB calls $9.65, CO folds

Turn: 8♠ ($36.30, 2 players)
SB checks, Alverine bets $20.70, SB raises to $52.70, Alverine calls $32

River: 9♠ ($141.70, 2 players)
SB bets $95, Alverine calls $95

I must admit tought process turn and river was "uhhh, he could have anything, so I call" I wonder if this types of calldown is spewy this deep. Do you think he can play JT this way? And backdoor fd? I think its highly unlikely for him to have JT, its mostly bdfd, sets, A7,A8,A2 and busted fd. River card looks extremely scary but at same time is really hard for him to have it, so he could represent it.

Do you like my size bets? Keeping AT,AJ,AQ and all draws with a 60% pot bet.

Thanks a lot sir

Originally posted by Alverine
Do you like my size bets? Keeping AT,AJ,AQ and all draws with a 60% pot bet.

before i judge your hand, pls re-think that quote and tell me why i dont judge that hand before u dont correct that statement.

and no, i dont like your betsize. now its up to you, to tell me why.

Originally posted by TwiceT

Originally posted by Alverine
Do you like my size bets? Keeping AT,AJ,AQ and all draws with a 60% pot bet.

before i judge your hand, pls re-think that quote and tell me why i dont judge that hand before u dont correct that statement.

and no, i dont like your betsize. now its up to you, to tell me why.

Poker can be a pretty logical game sometimes

i want to stack a 40/25 fish there w/ AK on the flop, i don't really see any point betting so small imo you want value don't you?

alverine sleeping, or w000t ?!

keeping AT, AJ, AQ ... draws etc in ...

he is a fish, so whatever betsize u use, Ax is NEVER folding. FD is NEVER folding.

that having in mind, i like starting flop by overbetting. i wanna build a pot with a hand that is clearly ahead of his range. if he folds, he didnt have much. thats ok. ofc u maybe fold out 88, 99 on the flop or 7x if u overbet. but im not even sure. ofc those hands call 2/3 flop bet. anyway, fishy ppl like limping suited cards (so he could have a fd) and Ax (so he could have tp)

my plan would be overbet flop and bombing most turns. value value value

as played its a tough spot without any reads and table dynamics. but ive definitely seen fish overplay AQ here. problem by the river, only diamond fd is busted and many Ax have 2 pair now. if u write down hand combos, i think a big problem by the river is also that many flop fd have now a pair by the river and u block KdQd and KdJd which sucks quite a bit. other fd have pairs so often and we dont know if he always bluffs his pairs as well

flop fd would not c/c and c/r turn usually, so we can discound most diamond combos anyway. Td9d or 6d5d makes a lot of sense, but i would expect a bigger turn c/r.

if he rly wants to overplay his AQ, he would already c/mr flop probably. doesnt make sense in his eyes to c/c and c/r turn with AQ if he thinks its strong here

turn could easily make him 2pair (87, A8) or he could already have A2 or 22.
once in a while he floats flop with KsQs, JsTs, QsJs etc those hands also beat u @ river.

overall, call me a nit ... but i b/f turn. if we overbet flop + turn, i would not necessarily say so cuz by overbetting we often put our opponents in push/fold scenario. in this case we dont and i just dont think we are good here often enough and calling turn + river is rly optimistic

c/c flop and c/r turn still is a strong line, we shouldnt forget that.

maybe i got too weak in such spots in nlhe cuz i play so much plo. but even if, i think being on the weak side is ok. just play another 10 hands vs this guy and u have his moniez anyway. i think u will see better spots than this one on the turn (river)

Originally posted by TwiceT

Originally posted by Alverine
Do you like my size bets? Keeping AT,AJ,AQ and all draws with a 60% pot bet.

before i judge your hand, pls re-think that quote and tell me why i dont judge that hand before u dont correct that statement.

and no, i dont like your betsize. now its up to you, to tell me why.

Humm, I think the more I bet, more hands he will fold. I dont wanna put a ton amount of pressure for him to run with AT/AJ/FD. I think flop I can bet more, he will c/f JJ/QQ/KK but its ok I guess cause I won't get another street value anyway, but doesnt make much sense betting more turn

Originally posted by Alverine

Originally posted by TwiceT

Originally posted by Alverine
Do you like my size bets? Keeping AT,AJ,AQ and all draws with a 60% pot bet.

before i judge your hand, pls re-think that quote and tell me why i dont judge that hand before u dont correct that statement.

and no, i dont like your betsize. now its up to you, to tell me why.

Humm, I think the more I bet, more hands he will fold. I dont wanna put a ton amount of pressure for him to run with AT/AJ/FD. I think flop I can bet more, he will c/f JJ/QQ/KK but its ok I guess cause I won't get another street value anyway, but doesnt make much sense betting more turn

NOT! his calling range (besides rly weak 7x or pairs lower than 7) is rly inelastic. he is calling any Ax always! thats why u should bet biiiig. i personally always overbet here. but your betsize is way tooo small imo

lol just finished pretty funny plo session. cant remember seeing so many action fish playing. friday night ftw!

solid pre flop hand selection sir!

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
PL Omaha $4(BB) Replayer
SB ($400)
BB ($200)
UTG ($190)
Hero ($481)
CO ($593)
BTN ($400)

Dealt to Hero J♣ J♥ Q♣ 9♥

fold, Hero raises to $14, CO calls $14, fold, fold, fold

FLOP ($34) T♥ J♠ 3♥

Hero checks, CO bets $32.30, Hero raises to $129, CO raises to $419, Hero raises to $467 (AI), CO calls $47.13

TURN ($968) T♥ J♠ 3♥ 4♥

RIVER ($968) T♥ J♠ 3♥ 4♥ Q♦

Hero shows J♣ J♥ Q♣ 9♥
(Pre 60%, Flop 90.5%, Turn 97.5%)

CO shows 2♠ 3♠ K♦ 3♦
(Pre 40%, Flop 9.5%, Turn 2.5%)

Hero wins $965

i 3bet more than usual tonight (bu 13, co 9) and ppl didnt seem to like it all that much ♠_biggrin: however, his turn shove is still a bit thin vs my range

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
PL Omaha $6(BB) Replayer
SB ($573)
BB ($624)
UTG ($516)
UTG+1 ($744)
Hero ($609)
BTN ($600)

Dealt to Hero A♥ 4♦ A♦ 3♣

fold, UTG+1 raises to $21, Hero raises to $72, fold, fold, fold, UTG+1 calls $51

FLOP ($153) A♠ 6♥ 5♣

UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $90, UTG+1 calls $90

TURN ($333) A♠ 6♥ 5♣ 6♦

UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $126, UTG+1 raises to $582 (AI), Hero calls $321 (AI)

RIVER ($1,228) A♠ 6♥ 5♣ 6♦ 5♥

UTG+1 shows J♣ J♥ A♣ K♦
(Pre 30%, Flop 5.4%, Turn 0.0%)

Hero shows A♥ 4♦ A♦ 3♣
(Pre 70%, Flop 94.6%, Turn 100.0%)

Hero wins $1,225