+++Q&A with Jared Tendler!!+++

Originally posted by MonkeySam

Originally posted by JaredTendler

Originally posted by MonkeySam
Do you think that any normal guy, with effort, passion, commitment, can be a good player at the future? I mean, with the normal skils and getting better at the mental side, can achieve some normal goals?
I am not talking about me, it is a response for a friend, and ok, my friend knows all about their skills.
I am not considered by myself a bad player, but i have really fear about put a big quantity of money and try this new adventure, simply becuase I have some fear to lose it. That is one of the reasons to be at this school, and I feel that my weak point is the tilt. I get mad, angry, I insult my oponents and thanks to your vision and articles I have found a light at the end of the tunnel. But I think I need to think more at my skils and try to think about less in the money, any advice?
Why Do i Get so nervous when I am betting all in and waiting for the result of the hand? is there any exercise to avoid this situation?

regards and thanks in advance

Hey Sam,

Lots of questions, let me first start by saying that yes, I do believe that a normal guy with normal skills can be successful. BUT, having the passion and commitment that is necessary to be successful isn't normal in my opinion. There are a lot of people who want to have that level of passion and commitment, but not a lot who actually do.

I also agree with your perspective: The mental game is a valuable part of poker, and I'm happy to hear my articles have provided a light at the end of the tunnel for you. However, it's only on big part of the overall equation for being a successful player. So you're absolutely right in focusing on your skills.

It sounds to me like the reason that you focus more on money than your skills is because you fear losing money. So, the question is why. What are you fearing about risking money in poker? This to me seems like the major priority. The nervousness that you get when all-in waiting for the result is secondary, and not as important. One important mental game skill is prioritizing, and your focus needs to be to get to the bottom of the main cause of your fear.

Post more details and I'll help you work through it.

Best,
Jared

TY Jared!
Basically it is the fear to lose big quantities of money, I mean, My idea is try to learn the game,and in the future, deposit a high sum ( for instance 600 usd) and try to take the things more seriously, but I dont want to lose money, with your articles I can understand that variance exists, But I guess that I do not have the mental strong necessary for take the best decisions at a higher stake, becuase i am always thinking about money, not chips. At the moment I have a job, wife and two kids, and I think it will be really hard to try to see what happens with poker if you have a family to feed, so until i was able to cope with this, I wont take any decision soon. Resuming, I have my poker skils from 1-100 are in 75-80. But my mental side...around 40-45 percent.

Yw!

This problem is making more sense now as you add more details. Is it becoming clearer to you as you write and think more about it? My first question is, why do you need to deposit a big sum and jump up to bigger stakes? Building a game, means building the skills to be a profitable player. What you invest into the game financially, needs to be matched with a realistic plan to develop your skills, taking into account the realities of variance. I guess my question is, why do you need to jump so high at the start, rather than build your way up.

Best,
Jared

Contest: Win a Free Coaching Session

I've decided to do a contest just for Poker Strategy members, where the winner will get a free 1 hr coaching session with me, to help them work through an area of their mental game.

To enter: make a short post (less than 300 words) about the area of the book that you’re struggling to understand, apply to your game, and/or see the connection it has to your game. I’ll select a winner on Monday Oct. 31st.

The only thing I ask of the winner is that we record the session so others can learn. I'll post the audio in this thread (if I can figure out how) otherwise I’ll post in on my blog and link to it from here. For everyone else not selected, I’ll post answers to your questions in this thread as I've been doing from the start.

I also realize some of you have just begun reading the book, that’s totally fine. The person selected will have posted something I think will be interesting for many others to learn from. How long they’ve been reading the book won’t be a factor. Plus, if it goes well I'll likely do it again down the road.

Book Excerpt: Inchworm

This section has a funny name, but a powerful message. It's become one of the most popular sections of the book and Lex Veldhuis even mentioned it when he talked about coaching Negreanu in this interview.

Here's a link where you can view/download this 9 page section of the book.

Enjoy!

Jared turned me into a winning poker player.

I owe him my life, thanks to his book it changed my life.

And no this is no Bullsh't!

I don't know him personally wasn't paid to write this either.

His book literally changed my life!

Thanks Jared,

Thanks for posting this excerpt. Its really valuable for me to consider that my thirst for new knowledge may relate to my tendency to range from very high to very low performance. Its to bad you weren't around to help Babe Ruth.

I've been following your material for a long while, but haven't yet read the book. Purchasing things online is difficult because they usually don't allow moneybookers or stars transfers. International transfers are expensive too...

While I haven't read the book... I still see poker as an opprotunity to change my life. I hope to use poker as a learning platform for overcoming my clinical depression. To be excellent at the game you have to be mentally strong, and so if I can become excellent at poker I must overcome my psychological deficits in the process. Long term progress in the one is a sign for me that I am progressing in the other.

Also, its so common for people to view gambling on poker as a cause of psychological problems, and part of me wouldn't mind fracturing this conception. Maybe you would agree.

So I haven't read your book yet, but I'd love to participate in your contest.

Hey Jarad, i have a question for you ♦

At NL5/NL10/NL25, 6 max cash game table, would you say AK is shove worthy pre-flop? I know it depends on your opponents but as a general rule? Against a knit, i probably wouldn't shove but against the rest?

e.g You're in a 6 max table, its folded all the way to the button and he raises, SB 3-bets and you're in BB holding AK. What do you do?

I've looked at my hand histories and the hand that's eating up most of my profits is AK =="

Thanks in advance!

Regards

p.s I know this has nothing to do with the mental part of poker but hope you can still help.

Originally posted by JaredTendler

Originally posted by MonkeySam

Originally posted by JaredTendler

Originally posted by MonkeySam
Do you think that any normal guy, with effort, passion, commitment, can be a good player at the future? I mean, with the normal skils and getting better at the mental side, can achieve some normal goals?
I am not talking about me, it is a response for a friend, and ok, my friend knows all about their skills.
I am not considered by myself a bad player, but i have really fear about put a big quantity of money and try this new adventure, simply becuase I have some fear to lose it. That is one of the reasons to be at this school, and I feel that my weak point is the tilt. I get mad, angry, I insult my oponents and thanks to your vision and articles I have found a light at the end of the tunnel. But I think I need to think more at my skils and try to think about less in the money, any advice?
Why Do i Get so nervous when I am betting all in and waiting for the result of the hand? is there any exercise to avoid this situation?

regards and thanks in advance

Hey Sam,

Lots of questions, let me first start by saying that yes, I do believe that a normal guy with normal skills can be successful. BUT, having the passion and commitment that is necessary to be successful isn't normal in my opinion. There are a lot of people who want to have that level of passion and commitment, but not a lot who actually do.

I also agree with your perspective: The mental game is a valuable part of poker, and I'm happy to hear my articles have provided a light at the end of the tunnel for you. However, it's only on big part of the overall equation for being a successful player. So you're absolutely right in focusing on your skills.

It sounds to me like the reason that you focus more on money than your skills is because you fear losing money. So, the question is why. What are you fearing about risking money in poker? This to me seems like the major priority. The nervousness that you get when all-in waiting for the result is secondary, and not as important. One important mental game skill is prioritizing, and your focus needs to be to get to the bottom of the main cause of your fear.

Post more details and I'll help you work through it.

Best,
Jared

TY Jared!
Basically it is the fear to lose big quantities of money, I mean, My idea is try to learn the game,and in the future, deposit a high sum ( for instance 600 usd) and try to take the things more seriously, but I dont want to lose money, with your articles I can understand that variance exists, But I guess that I do not have the mental strong necessary for take the best decisions at a higher stake, becuase i am always thinking about money, not chips. At the moment I have a job, wife and two kids, and I think it will be really hard to try to see what happens with poker if you have a family to feed, so until i was able to cope with this, I wont take any decision soon. Resuming, I have my poker skils from 1-100 are in 75-80. But my mental side...around 40-45 percent.

Yw!

This problem is making more sense now as you add more details. Is it becoming clearer to you as you write and think more about it? My first question is, why do you need to deposit a big sum and jump up to bigger stakes? Building a game, means building the skills to be a profitable player. What you invest into the game financially, needs to be matched with a realistic plan to develop your skills, taking into account the realities of variance. I guess my question is, why do you need to jump so high at the start, rather than build your way up.

Best,
Jared

Hi Jared!
High stakes it does not means go to PLO200 or something like that ♦ ♦ At the moment I am at PLO2, I mean, I want to try PLO10 or something like that with a good bankroll and avoid to play scared money. At PLO2 you can play, and get some profit...but you can not learn the game because there are so many bad players,they can pay you all the 3 streets and win the pot, because they dont think, just press all the time the call button.
Its so deceiving when you read articles, watch videos, attend coachings and loose a buy in against somebody who play in a bad way the hand and sometimes makes some jokes using the chat.
Beside, I think my biggest leak is think about money, so when I lose a pot, I feel terrible, that is becuase I think in the lost money, how can I do for desensitize about the money?
Best regards

Originally posted by JaredTendler
Contest: Win a Free Coaching Session

I've decided to do a contest just for Poker Strategy members, where the winner will get a free 1 hr coaching session with me, to help them work through an area of their mental game.

To enter: make a short post (less than 300 words) about the area of the book that you’re struggling to understand, apply to your game, and/or see the connection it has to your game. I’ll select a winner on Monday Oct. 31st.

The only thing I ask of the winner is that we record the session so others can learn. I'll post the audio in this thread (if I can figure out how) otherwise I’ll post in on my blog and link to it from here. For everyone else not selected, I’ll post answers to your questions in this thread as I've been doing from the start.

I also realize some of you have just begun reading the book, that’s totally fine. The person selected will have posted something I think will be interesting for many others to learn from. How long they’ve been reading the book won’t be a factor. Plus, if it goes well I'll likely do it again down the road.

Have you found anyone yet? Also, I looked for your book on Amazon.ca Any plans to list it there as well as the .com and .uk?

Originally posted by JaredTendler
Contest: Win a Free Coaching Session

I've decided to do a contest just for Poker Strategy members, where the winner will get a free 1 hr coaching session with me, to help them work through an area of their mental game.

To enter: make a short post (less than 300 words) about the area of the book that you’re struggling to understand, apply to your game, and/or see the connection it has to your game. I’ll select a winner on Monday Oct. 31st.

The only thing I ask of the winner is that we record the session so others can learn. I'll post the audio in this thread (if I can figure out how) otherwise I’ll post in on my blog and link to it from here. For everyone else not selected, I’ll post answers to your questions in this thread as I've been doing from the start.

I also realize some of you have just begun reading the book, that’s totally fine. The person selected will have posted something I think will be interesting for many others to learn from. How long they’ve been reading the book won’t be a factor. Plus, if it goes well I'll likely do it again down the road.

What a fantastic opportunity, good luck to all who applied!

Originally posted by iCallSick1
Jared turned me into a winning poker player.

I owe him my life, thanks to his book it changed my life.

And no this is no Bullsh't!

I don't know him personally wasn't paid to write this either.

His book literally changed my life!

Thanks Jared,

Amazing to hear! Can I ask, what helped so much???

Thanks!!

Originally posted by datsmahname
Thanks for posting this excerpt. Its really valuable for me to consider that my thirst for new knowledge may relate to my tendency to range from very high to very low performance. Its to bad you weren't around to help Babe Ruth.

I've been following your material for a long while, but haven't yet read the book. Purchasing things online is difficult because they usually don't allow moneybookers or stars transfers. International transfers are expensive too...

While I haven't read the book... I still see poker as an opprotunity to change my life. I hope to use poker as a learning platform for overcoming my clinical depression. To be excellent at the game you have to be mentally strong, and so if I can become excellent at poker I must overcome my psychological deficits in the process. Long term progress in the one is a sign for me that I am progressing in the other.

Also, its so common for people to view gambling on poker as a cause of psychological problems, and part of me wouldn't mind fracturing this conception. Maybe you would agree.

So I haven't read your book yet, but I'd love to participate in your contest.

If you're interested in getting the book, we accept Moneybookers. Just email me: jared@mentalgameofpoker.com and I'll give you the details. No plans to get it up on Amazon.ca at the moment. They require a distributor within Canada and mine is in the US and UK.

I agree with you that poker can be a way to heal depression and other issues like it. This can be risky, but if you work hard and believe there are answers out there, eventually you can find them.

This contest was only for people who had read the book, but I've just spoken with the PS higher ups and I'll be doing additional contests that are open to anyone shortly. I'll post more details here as things become finalized.

Originally posted by hamid88
Hey Jarad, i have a question for you ♦

At NL5/NL10/NL25, 6 max cash game table, would you say AK is shove worthy pre-flop? I know it depends on your opponents but as a general rule? Against a knit, i probably wouldn't shove but against the rest?

e.g You're in a 6 max table, its folded all the way to the button and he raises, SB 3-bets and you're in BB holding AK. What do you do?

I've looked at my hand histories and the hand that's eating up most of my profits is AK =="

Thanks in advance!

Regards

p.s I know this has nothing to do with the mental part of poker but hope you can still help.

I don't answer tactical questions - not my area of expertise. There are lots of great coaches and fellow members who can give you some advice.

Best!
Jared

My downer is still ongoing - biggest/nastiest/longest I've ever had to endure.

For the most part, you book has helped me a great deal in handling everything - I don't monkeytilt anymore and as I wrote a bit earlier, instead get excited when "tilt opportunities" arise for me to work on them.

And the beats don't even bother me anymore - partly coz of your book and partly because that has become the "standard".

What bothers me though now is, even though I have managed to reduce all the negative mindset effects and improve my mental endurance/work ethic etc.

I can't help but still feel a bit sad after sickening days.

And I get over it pretty quickly usually, but today I feel like I've reached some sort of a "tipping point".

I feel so tired of it all and powerless ... Sad that despite all my hard work, I'm not getting rewarded and just receive a beating day in and out instead.

Most likely it's because I still have expectations ... Now that I work even more/harder on my issues, there's naturally the expectation that "reward" is right around the corner coz it's been delayed for so long and eventually I have to get it ...

But I don't know how one's not supposed to have any expectations at all?
(sounds impossible and at the same time, it's the culprit that creates the feeling of failure when expectations aren't met)
♠_cry:

i.e. suppose I was that one dude who runs bad for the rest of his life coz in theory that's possible ... the cards have no memory

I don't think there's a single person out there who would keep at it for 5, 10 or more years without being rewarded at all ... even though he's persevered and kept at it all this time (ofc assuming he's a winning good player in theory)

(though I once read some article about a guy with the most losses in a person's boxing career - had hundreds of losses )

Ofc, 1,5 months is nothing ... but it's all relative anyway, it's always going to be rly hard when u're being pushed beyond your current limits.

I guess the point of all this ranting is to hopefully get some magical solution/advice on how to cope with all that

(probably should read the "resetting the mind" chapter from the book, but feeling completely "depleted" right now and unable to do anything productive)

The Book Arrived today!!!

I have an hour before my next meeting. Eagerly thumbing through pages now

Jared, I read the first 4 chapters last night and today I tried out your Warm Up & Cool Down tips.

I found it much easier to remember areas of my game that needed improvement. In particular, I'd been letting the back end of my game lag behind for a really long time and have needed to focus on making better decisions on late streets with marginal made hands (at times showing down when I beat none of my opponents range).

Something else happened that I didn't expect. I enjoyed my session WAY more than usual. I haven't looked at the results yet. I started writing this after scoring my performance during the cool down portion...

The only way I can really account for this enjoyment is because I knew I was moving forward again; taking that step forward from the back.

Its ironic, but I'm at risk of celebrating my first ever losing month after roughly 2-3 years as an amateur... but I'm going to try and keep preparing for sessions and just see how it goes.

ps. Top of page 46. You nailed it.

That's exactly what happened a few months ago when I had a tough run. Its still my flawed approach to poker (well, one of them). I'd study like a total madman, sometimes twice as much as I play but it wasn't effective because I hadn't been stepping forward from the back. Its no surprise that over the last year the variance in my game has increased. I think this is the area of my mental game I'll try to work on first. Edit: though I'm not sure how yet! I'm hoping I'll find something later in the book or use the strategy chapter...

Originally posted by StaticMoth
My downer is still ongoing - biggest/nastiest/longest I've ever had to endure.

For the most part, you book has helped me a great deal in handling everything - I don't monkeytilt anymore and as I wrote a bit earlier, instead get excited when "tilt opportunities" arise for me to work on them.

And the beats don't even bother me anymore - partly coz of your book and partly because that has become the "standard".

What bothers me though now is, even though I have managed to reduce all the negative mindset effects and improve my mental endurance/work ethic etc.

I can't help but still feel a bit sad after sickening days.

And I get over it pretty quickly usually, but today I feel like I've reached some sort of a "tipping point".

I feel so tired of it all and powerless ... Sad that despite all my hard work, I'm not getting rewarded and just receive a beating day in and out instead.

Most likely it's because I still have expectations ... Now that I work even more/harder on my issues, there's naturally the expectation that "reward" is right around the corner coz it's been delayed for so long and eventually I have to get it ...

But I don't know how one's not supposed to have any expectations at all?
(sounds impossible and at the same time, it's the culprit that creates the feeling of failure when expectations aren't met)
♠_cry:

i.e. suppose I was that one dude who runs bad for the rest of his life coz in theory that's possible ... the cards have no memory

I don't think there's a single person out there who would keep at it for 5, 10 or more years without being rewarded at all ... even though he's persevered and kept at it all this time (ofc assuming he's a winning good player in theory)

(though I once read some article about a guy with the most losses in a person's boxing career - had hundreds of losses )

Ofc, 1,5 months is nothing ... but it's all relative anyway, it's always going to be rly hard when u're being pushed beyond your current limits.

I guess the point of all this ranting is to hopefully get some magical solution/advice on how to cope with all that

(probably should read the "resetting the mind" chapter from the book, but feeling completely "depleted" right now and unable to do anything productive)

I'd imagine that just writing out what was going on inside your mind was helpful.

It makes sense why you would feel sad. In the past, you'd only react with anger, and now that you're working hard but not getting result, yet, it's upsetting.

I know it's been a little bit since you first posted, how are you feeling now?

Regarding your reaction, and judging from your post, it seems like you do still have expectations and falling short of them is a big factor. The problem isn't that you have expectations at all (I agree it's impossible to be without expectations entirely), it's what your expectations are tied to: in this case, still to factors beyond your control. You've been making a transition away from being tied too much to results, and more to quality of your play, but it's ongoing. This is just a mistep. One that proves just how much you've learned. (Compare it to your 2nd worst run). Progress is huge. That you can feel good about. You can feel good about how much you're hard work has produced mentally, and in how much greater control you are in your game.

But, clearly there's more mental work that can be done, and until variance turns, the opportunity to see your weaknesses and work on them remains.

It may be helpful to think in the long-term too. What you learn from handling these bad runs, and the real mental skill (resiliency, thriving underpressure, for example) that you develop may be essential to you in the future. Impossible to know what specifically, but, hard times in life are a heck of a lot easier when you have the kind of skill you're developing by thriving through this hard time in poker.

Just a thought.

There aren't any magic bullets fortunately. If there were, there wouldn't be the reward to those willing to do the real work necessary to achieve great things.

Originally posted by JaredTendler

I know it's been a little bit since you first posted, how are you feeling now?

Surprisingly good actually ... Despite still running the way I am, I've managed to break even and even have a few slightly winning sessions in between as well ...

And breakeven+rakeback = +profit+ ... As long as you're making some money, you can't rly cry about it ... Much better than my last month of utter destruction.

It's hard to see others around me winning and running "normally" ...
But at the same time I also feel rly good about myself in the sense that I know ... no matter what, I will never ever have that quit in me.

I can break for a brief moment, but I always manage to "resurrect" and come back stronger.

Also, I tried to take some of the expectations out of my game ...
I made volume/rakeback calculations and based my expectations on only that, as this is smth I can control.

X amount of hours = X amount of hands = X amount of rakeback/money

I just assume a 0 winrate (which is still a bit of an "expectation" since I can have a losing winrate for the month, but still a better overall approach/formula to put in more work and care less about the outcome of individual hands) for myself to have no expectations for that which cannot be predicted and only strive for the numbers/amounts that are constants/always achieveable when I put in the amount of volume that correlates with the amount of (rakeback) money I want to earn.

And another thing I tried starting with yesterday is blogging/writing to myself ... Not much meaningful came to mind - I think I'll just have to get better at asking the right questions.

As you can see, your excellent questions always get me to ramble endlessly, which I'd like to be able to "induce" on my own as well.

(Meaningful) writing feels good.

Originally posted by datsmahname
Jared, I read the first 4 chapters last night and today I tried out your Warm Up & Cool Down tips.

I found it much easier to remember areas of my game that needed improvement. In particular, I'd been letting the back end of my game lag behind for a really long time and have needed to focus on making better decisions on late streets with marginal made hands (at times showing down when I beat none of my opponents range).

Something else happened that I didn't expect. I enjoyed my session WAY more than usual. I haven't looked at the results yet. I started writing this after scoring my performance during the cool down portion...

The only way I can really account for this enjoyment is because I knew I was moving forward again; taking that step forward from the back.

Its ironic, but I'm at risk of celebrating my first ever losing month after roughly 2-3 years as an amateur... but I'm going to try and keep preparing for sessions and just see how it goes.

ps. Top of page 46. You nailed it.

That's exactly what happened a few months ago when I had a tough run. Its still my flawed approach to poker (well, one of them). I'd study like a total madman, sometimes twice as much as I play but it wasn't effective because I hadn't been stepping forward from the back. Its no surprise that over the last year the variance in my game has increased. I think this is the area of my mental game I'll try to work on first. Edit: though I'm not sure how yet! I'm hoping I'll find something later in the book or use the strategy chapter...

Great to see the immediate improvement in your attitude and your game. I'd imagine you enjoyed it, because you like learning and improving. It's easy for poker to get stale.

The easiest way to improve the back end of your Inchworm/bell curve is to know very clearly the tactical and mental weaknesses that exist there. Use the Mental Hand History to break them down. Study them. Warm/Cool down to ensure you're ready to implement the corrections each time you play and evaluate how you did. Injecting Logic/strategic reminder to ensure you execute while playing. Then, when things get tough or emotionally intense, it's a signal to spring into action and make sure you correct those basic weaknesses. Rinse/repeat until you master the correction.

gogogogo!

Originally posted by StaticMoth

Originally posted by JaredTendler

I know it's been a little bit since you first posted, how are you feeling now?

Surprisingly good actually ... Despite still running the way I am, I've managed to break even and even have a few slightly winning sessions in between as well ...

And breakeven+rakeback = +profit+ ... As long as you're making some money, you can't rly cry about it ... Much better than my last month of utter destruction.

It's hard to see others around me winning and running "normally" ...
But at the same time I also feel rly good about myself in the sense that I know ... no matter what, I will never ever have that quit in me.

I can break for a brief moment, but I always manage to "resurrect" and come back stronger.

Also, I tried to take some of the expectations out of my game ...
I made volume/rakeback calculations and based my expectations on only that, as this is smth I can control.

X amount of hours = X amount of hands = X amount of rakeback/money

I just assume a 0 winrate (which is still a bit of an "expectation" since I can have a losing winrate for the month, but still a better overall approach/formula to put in more work and care less about the outcome of individual hands) for myself to have no expectations for that which cannot be predicted and only strive for the numbers/amounts that are constants/always achieveable when I put in the amount of volume that correlates with the amount of (rakeback) money I want to earn.

And another thing I tried starting with yesterday is blogging/writing to myself ... Not much meaningful came to mind - I think I'll just have to get better at asking the right questions.

As you can see, your excellent questions always get me to ramble endlessly, which I'd like to be able to "induce" on my own as well.

(Meaningful) writing feels good.

Excellent. It's hard to know what the future holds, but the skills you're developing are most strongly correlated with success.

You're right asking the right questions is key. My cousin's mother in-law once told me: "If you want better answers, ask better questions." I always keep that in mind. If you need a good question, it's only a post away:)

Hey Jared

I presume this is a great thread, I haven't had the chance to wade through it yet.

I'm recently starting to play again after kind of being recreational for a while. I had the typical poker journalist approach to the game of playing too many hands because I write about poker = I must be awesome at poker.

Given I've mostly been playing microstakes where no one folds you can imagine how that went.

So logically I know that when I start trying to build up a bankroll again tomorrow I will want to play less hands, bluff less and generally play like you should at micros. This works for a time, until I lose a decent sized pot or I make a bad call*.

Overall, as well, I have this impatience. From TMGoP I would say entitlement tilt, Phil Hellmuth tilt and hate-losing tilt are my main breaking points.

*This happens a lot because I hero call too much, I feel like I want to fold sometimes I have to call in order to see if my decision to fold was right. It's obviously stupid but I guess it's part of hate-losing/entitlement that I need to try and win the pot and/or see if I am outplaying someone.

I realise you're going to come back with questions of your own so I'm gonna look back over this post and think about it a bit more.