[Closed] QQ witk K on the board

Pre-flop is fine.

With an overcard on the flop you have to bet. I think your bet is fine.

After checking the turn I would also check the river.

What did your opponents do after you bet on the river?

They folded.

Originally posted by Ickki
With an overcard on the flop you have to bet. I think your bet is fine.

Ickki, without me giving you the answer first, could you elaborate why you think you have to bet with an overcard on the flop? Explain your logic

You showed strength before the flop, so you should make a continuation bet here, even if it's against two opponents. You need to know where you stand. It's not a bad scenario if your opponents fold to your bet.

If you don't bet but just check, you have no idea, where you stand if one of the opponents bets. He could have hit the flop with a king/possibly flush draw, or he may just be trying to steal, since nobody else is showing any strength.

So I think betting 214 on the flop is fine.

Ok I've had a discussion with Ickki in skype and demonstrated why I think this, but here's my answers ♦

Preflop is fine.
Check the flop. The biggest part of their calling range is going to be Kx, most of the hands we beat are folding if we bet. So checking is fine; it will encourage them to bluff subsequent streets which will give us more value from worse hands

Originally posted by gedwashere91
Ok I've had a discussion with Ickki in skype and demonstrated why I think this, but here's my answers ♦

Preflop is fine.
Check the flop. The biggest part of their calling range is going to be Kx, most of the hands we beat are folding if we bet. So checking is fine; it will encourage them to bluff subsequent streets which will give us more value from worse hands

You are going to get calls from A5 type hands and flush draws as well but you do not know if you are against
a made K or against these draws so I check and go for pot control because this can be seen as way ahead way
behind IMO.

**EDIT: If you were last to act on the flop and everyone was passive then you could bet for value against the
draws but I would even then probably start firing on a safe turn card if again villains were still passive.

Originally posted by 8979687
You are going to get calls from A5 type hands and flush draws as well but you do not know if you are against
a made K or against these draws so I check and go for pot control because this can be seen as way ahead way
behind IMO.

Well because there are a few draws in their range it isn't really way ahead/way behind, but you're mostly right. Pot control is definitely the aim here.

As it seems to be a rather controversial point here, I don't hate betting the flop. I think checking is slightly better. Now if there were a lot of gutshots and the such we could get value from then I prefer betting. Here though other than the 2 :club: it's a reasonably dry board. So I would just check and bet the turn instead. As played once 2 people call you on the flop I would just check/fold turn and check/evaluate river.

I don't like the river bet... - what better hands are we folding and what worse hands we get value from?? Maybe a small value bet on the river, to get value form busted FD/air, but even that is questionable with 2 players that paid the flop bet

Originally posted by gedwashere91
Ok I've had a discussion with Ickki in skype and demonstrated why I think this, but here's my answers ♦

Preflop is fine.
Check the flop. The biggest part of their calling range is going to be Kx, most of the hands we beat are folding if we bet. So checking is fine; it will encourage them to bluff subsequent streets which will give us more value from worse hands

If you check, and the player behind you makes a nice 2/3 pot bet, what do you do? Is a a value bet, or a bluff?

Originally posted by Einsteinbrain
If you check, and the player behind you makes a nice 2/3 pot bet, what do you do? Is a a value bet, or a bluff?

I think I would definitely call; a few draws missed, the board paired, and we checked the turn, which means fish will tend to bluff more often imo.
However, if juniwi bets and the guy who's OOP calls, I might be inclined to fold then, as at least one of them is pretty likely to have us beat.

Originally posted by Einsteinbrain

Originally posted by gedwashere91
Ok I've had a discussion with Ickki in skype and demonstrated why I think this, but here's my answers ♦

Preflop is fine.
Check the flop. The biggest part of their calling range is going to be Kx, most of the hands we beat are folding if we bet. So checking is fine; it will encourage them to bluff subsequent streets which will give us more value from worse hands

If you check, and the player behind you makes a nice 2/3 pot bet, what do you do? Is a a value bet, or a bluff?

It's a fold by us, I don't mind folding here when someone so easily has Kx

Originally posted by Gavron23
I don't like the river bet... - what better hands are we folding and what worse hands we get value from?? Maybe a small value bet on the river, to get value form busted FD/air, but even that is questionable with 2 players that paid the flop bet

I think betting on the river with get smaller pairs to call, a lot of opponents range is medium small pairs that could be overpairs to the board apart from the K.

I don't think there are too many Kx hands in the opponents range, since hero has two Qs, KQ is a rare possibility, AK likely would've raised preflop. KJ, maybe KT suited seem like the only hands but people rarely play those hands.

I wouldn't say many people at the very low stakes fold KT and KJ preflop. And once 2 people call you on the flop, you have to weight their holdings more towards stronger hands like top pair.

I don't often c-bet with an over out there but I do here, and even less often with TWO others in the hand. But as already been stated a ton of non King hands will call here so I might. The river bet isn't that bad either but to be getting value from 77 thru JJ I'd bet-fold a tad smaller.