What to do when you find out that you`re not a winning player?

    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
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      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      It´s over one year when I´ve been playing poker. First 4 months I was learning basics and loosing a few dollars, then I heard about that site and thanks to Pokerstategy I managed to build up my bankroll to 500$. Last month was quite frustrating and I´ve lost 2/5th of my bankroll. I can´t play successfully sss, because I probably don´t have patience and today when my two pair was rivered by flush (I played that hand terrible btw) I got frustrated and ended the session. I´m not the brilliant poker player and maybe just above the average.

      So if I haven´t accomplished anything last year then I probably have to think if there is point playing on poker at all (maybe sometimes loose couple of $ when I don´t anything to do^^). I won´t make another deposit and I don´t like to play below NL 10. So if I loose all the money:( then I know that I wasn´t good stupid

      I´ve heard that 90% of the online players are loosing players. Is that true? Right now it feels, that I would belong these players.

      In the end it is all one big variance and I haven´t played so much hands to say smt about my winning/loosing rates. Just taking a little break from poker.
  • 20 replies
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
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      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      you really can't be result orientated. if you're playing your hands correctly, even if you're losing money, you are a winning player. if you're actually a losing player you can re-read the articles on this site, they are really helpful. It's important to follow correct BRM though.

      eg, i'm currently on a sick downswing, but i know it's ok because i'm so much better than everyone else ;) .

      Hope my answer wasn't too generic.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
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      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Just have to learn, learn and learn. I´m going to re-read first the BSS articles
    • conrader
      conrader
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.01.2007 Posts: 3
      BSS works so much better for me. I don't have patience for SSS, and when I get bored with it I stop to think and make stupid moves which lead to loosing cash.

      BSS is more demanding and its keeping you up and awake all the time. (especially when some big pots are in) ;-)

      Ive been playing BSS successfully for a couple of weeks and I must say I still feel the adrenaline in my veins when I have a chance to triple ;-)

      Good luck playing BSS!

      (oh, and if you've made 500 bucks and you are down to 300, you are still a winning player).
    • Gungunhana
      Gungunhana
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.02.2007 Posts: 429
      Hello Kaitz20
      Maybe my own experience will help you.
      I started playing last March, with Pokerstrategy, followed the whole procedure,..read all the articles,played SSS, played BSS NL10, built my BR to $550,00, changed to NL20 in May, playing 4/6 tables, thought I was the best......and hell broke loose!!
      For 4 months I steadily proceeded to lose my BR, down to $110.
      I thought exactly like you and was about to stop playing.

      Then I read an article by Puschkin81, called "How to improve my game".(btw congratulations Puschkin81 for an excellent article).

      I went back down to NL10, playing max 2 tables so that I could pay attention to the action, made a point of studying the articles, discuss hands in the forum, etc ,for at least 2 hrs a day.
      In a month I was back at $400,00, went back up to NL20 and since then I´ve built my BR to $990,00, playing 4tables now and hopefully in a couple of weeks I should go up to NL50 (when I reach $1250,00 because I want to be on the safe side).
      I think that in a situation like yours, maybe the same "treatment" might work.
      Good luck and I hope to play against you soon. ;)
    • xylere
      xylere
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      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      Hi Kaitz20,

      I believe Gungunhana's story is probably the best advice you can get. Sometimes you need to make one step back in order to make two steps forward... So I suggest you start everything from the beginning and move up.

      I wish you fast recovery and hope we will be hearing mostly good news from you)
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
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      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Hi Kaitz20!

      This is the article Gungunhana is referring to: http://www.pokerstrategy.com/news/world-of-poker/How-to-improve-my-game_01180

      I'm sure you will move up again.

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
    • maxousek
      maxousek
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.05.2007 Posts: 15
      Hi,I made up my BR up to 700 dollars during 2 months and then I went down to 350.I know how u fell,but u must have patience a hold up until the bad streak will be gone.
      It took me almost 2 months to be a winning player againg.During that time I was up and down , still sitting around 350 and I wanted to end with poker that time.Now I play the same way and I am winning player again.
      I had to cashout,so I play nl10 again and today I had a very good session for me.Check out my stats.

      I wish good luck to all of you and let the poker be your good friend.
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Thanks. I've started to believe, that in the end, I'm winning player. Just I can't play SSS successfully. At NL 10 level my BB in 20 k hands is over 2,5/100 hands which I believe is quite good. I don't have major upswings, but grinding and steadying constantly. At the end of this year I like to reach NL 25 level.
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      SSS is a very high variance game with as i heard the expectation of ~1 BB / 100 hand.

      My 15k NL50 SSS hand has -1,71 PTBB / 100 hand. Total loss of 249$
      My 25k NL25 SSS hands has -0,24 PTBB / 100 hand. Total loss of 29$

      I had highs and lows. Xylere wrote somewhere that you can get a breakeven 80k hands also.

      Its very clear im not the best at it, although im getting beats after beats also. So the two things come together

      1., Im not making maximum out of it.
      2., Also having bad run.

      I think if you feel more comfortable with BSS dont hesitate. The most juicy games are the SH games anyway.

      Good to hear you find your way.
    • xylere
      xylere
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      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      Originally posted by Utahmar
      I had highs and lows. Xylere wrote somewhere that you can get a breakeven 80k hands also.
      Well, this was a graph of german beginner, I mean, this is not what you should expect)) However, 10-15k hands zero runs are ok.

      Check out this data:

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/ru/forum/thread.php?postid=38561#post38561

      Statistics of russian SSS coach, he is playing NL 1-2k. Pay attention at NL 2$ and NL 200$ (both are NL200) - 60k hands with an average winrate of 0.85BB/100... And then goes an upswing)
      So Utahmar, keep waiting))

      SSS is a very high variance game with as i heard the expectation of ~1 BB / 100 hand.


      Its true on higer limits, on lower you can do more)
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
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      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      I have worse stats for sure :



      Im not stealing enough ( he has higher VPIP / steal blinds stat ), he has way higher W$WSF ( they folded to cbet ), higher went to showdown ( i dont know why is this although ), and also higher Won at showdown ( that probably better post flop play ).

      And with these better stats he is around 1bb. Its not a wonder than im not winning now.

      With his profit chart he's kinda steady going up. Not me :

    • xylere
      xylere
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      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      well, its NL 200, not NL 25... I wasn`t stealing on Nl 25 at all. But your stats are strange for sure)

      Vpip is too low... should be around 7. You can limp pockets from late with 2 limpers before you.

      Vpip from SB around 13 - limp any pocket pair with 2 limpers, any suited broadway cards or any suited ace with 3+ limpers.

      Folded BB and ATS are ok for your limits.

      Flop AF is too low (should be around 10). Probably, the result of checking behind too much)

      Went to SD is definately way too low...
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
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      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      There are usually no limping on Full Tilt, or max 1, than some1 raise or all fold to the blinds.
      Most time there's a raiser, even there are times to fold around.
      Hard to see 2 limper. Maybe i see once every playing session aka / ~800 hands.
      3+ limper in my best dreams.

      Flop AF can be, that if i have trash in freeplay blinds im not betting into the pot usually ( sometime i do, but like 1-2 in 10 ). I will do it more often from now.

      Wento to SD maybe this is in connection with flop agression.

      They steal on FT, 9 max tables, and the game is ( in my eyes at least tight ). For 9 people the see flop % / table is max 30%, usually less, 2 ( a raiser, and a caller, or reraiser ) max 3 people / flop.
    • xylere
      xylere
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      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      Just always make 1 bet in HU holding any two.
      Still, there is something wrong with your VPIP... Do you deviate from SCH anyhow?
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
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      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      No. Only on _very_ rare occasion, i fold preflop reraise/push hands JJ, or AKo. That shouldnt cut on average vpip.
      Im having my PT DB on a public ftp site, i renew it right now.
      I'd be very happy if some1 take a look at it, and find leaks.

      Yesterday i think it was a normal bad run :

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/hu/forum/thread.php?threadid=1424

      I didnt post them, i feel all okay, might be wrong.
    • xylere
      xylere
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      Originally posted by Utahmar
      No. Only on _very_ rare occasion, i fold preflop reraise/push hands JJ, or AKo. That shouldnt cut on average vpip.
      Im having my PT DB on a public ftp site, i renew it right now.
      I'd be very happy if some1 take a look at it, and find leaks.

      Yesterday i think it was a normal bad run :

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/hu/forum/thread.php?threadid=1424

      I didnt post them, i feel all okay, might be wrong.
      Can you upload it somewhere (DB)? Like rapidshare, whatsoever... I don`t think I can help you a lot reviewing your stats, but I may help you after reviewing couple of your sessions...
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
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      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      EDIT : if any1 needs DB again for full tilt NL25 let me know

      Takes 20 mins, and it will be there.
      Thanks in advance
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
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      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      Its there, other Full Tilters might use it also, for other players stats.
      Or i take advice if any1 else would ananlyze my play.
    • xylere
      xylere
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      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      got it) I`ll work it out till wednesday or so... contact you as soon as I have any results.
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