[NL20-NL50] nl50 Rush - QJs utg rivered flush facing shove

    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,675
      Grabbed by Holdem Manager
      NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
      SB ($31.15)
      BB ($35)
      Hero ($61)
      UTG+1 ($122)
      CO ($51.70)
      BTN ($86.95)

      Dealt to Hero Q:club: J:club:

      Hero raises to $2, UTG+1 calls $2, CO calls $2, fold, fold, BB calls $1.50

      FLOP ($8.25) T:club: 3:heart: 5:club:

      BB checks, Hero bets $4, UTG+1 calls $4, CO calls $4, BB folds

      TURN ($20.25) T:club: 3:heart: 5:club: 4:diamond:

      Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks

      RIVER ($20.25) T:club: 3:heart: 5:club: 4:diamond: 7:club:

      Hero bets $15, UTG+1 folds, CO raises to $45.70 (AI), Hero calls $30.70

      Villain reg 21/18/2 wts 18, 221 hands.
      I reasoned that villain sQueezs AcKc mostly, and cannot have AcQc or AcJc so that leaves Ace rag suited or KcTc (which I think he is not always calling). Are there enough weaker flushes/ sets/ straights for me to bet/call river?
  • 12 replies
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      I would bet bigger on the flop and also barrel turn with overcards+fd
      River is b/c, since he can shove river worse flushes for value and your hand rather looks overpair so I won´t be suprised if he tries to bluffshove smt like 88 and he can sometimes also shove river for value 6x
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,675
      k, thanks Kaitz - you think turn barrel is profitable vs 2 opponents? i.e. Can we assume overcards will be good?
    • falcone1983
      falcone1983
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2009 Posts: 5,420
      6.50 on the flop, I probably don't barrel vs two on the turn (I certainly do if I get only one caller).

      River is bet/call, he only has 6-7 combo's of better, so you only need 3 combo's of worse in his range to be able to call (98cc, 86cc, 43cc et voilà, and that's w/o taking into account 6x and 77).
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,675
      Thanks for that - nicely explained, amigo. One question more: if you were villain and had 9c8c in that spot would you think it correct to shove the river over our bet?

      i.e. can he expect me to call worse give how we played the hand?

      cheers
    • falcone1983
      falcone1983
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.05.2009 Posts: 5,420
      Either I would flat the river like a nit and feel bad about it (even though I lost the minimum) or I would shove and tilt when he shows me a better flush.

      But really, I think almost everyone is going to be "LOLZ, I have a flush, shooove!!1!1"
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by Tim64
      Thanks for that - nicely explained, amigo. One question more: if you were villain and had 9c8c in that spot would you think it correct to shove the river over our bet?

      i.e. can he expect me to call worse give how we played the hand?

      cheers
      Don´t really see why he should conider checking back flushdraw on the turn, but I think we have to shove river for value. Can´t really put you always on flush and you can b/c there with 6x
    • arinho
      arinho
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.11.2007 Posts: 1,005
      wat if we bet turn and he goes allin...do we call?
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by arinho
      wat if we bet turn and he goes allin...do we call?
      no, since we then can assume he has there set or straight and we don´t really get correct odds to his our flush. But by betting turn we force out better hands, like Tx or middle pp
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,675
      Don´t really see why he should conider checking back flushdraw on the turn, but I think we have to shove river for value. Can´t really put you always on flush and you can b/c there with 6x


      Do you mean hero or CO? On the turn we are oop and facing 2 opponents. So question is if it is correct to cb turn into 2 with fd and (maybe) overs.

      (Only CO can "check back" the flushdraw, not hero.)

      thx
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by Tim64
      Don´t really see why he should conider checking back flushdraw on the turn, but I think we have to shove river for value. Can´t really put you always on flush and you can b/c there with 6x


      Do you mean hero or CO? On the turn we are oop and facing 2 opponents. So question is if it is correct to cb turn into 2 with fd and (maybe) overs.

      (Only CO can "check back" the flushdraw, not hero.)

      thx
      I meant co, since likely he doesn´t have showdown value, people would c/f turn or if they c/c we can decide if we want to shove river and we rarely get c/rai. So taking stab at co shoes seems logical to me.
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,675
      Ok I think I understand what you are saying:

      If CO had a flush draw on turn, and pf raiser checked, CO will normally take a sta (since pfr gives sign of weakness)?

      Because of this, you dont expect CO to have flush often on the river, which is why we - hero - must bet/call - correct?

      finally, if we are in CO's shoes and we do ch/b our 8c9c flush draw on turn (whatever the reason) we still shove our rivered flush for value? (we dont put pf raiser on flushes enough to just call)?

      thanks....
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by Tim64
      Ok I think I understand what you are saying:

      If CO had a flush draw on turn, and pf raiser checked, CO will normally take a sta (since pfr gives sign of weakness)?

      Because of this, you dont expect CO to have flush often on the river, which is why we - hero - must bet/call - correct?

      finally, if we are in CO's shoes and we do ch/b our 8c9c flush draw on turn (whatever the reason) we still shove our rivered flush for value? (we dont put pf raiser on flushes enough to just call)?

      thanks....
      If CO had a flush draw on turn, and pf raiser checked, CO will normally take a sta (since pfr gives sign of weakness)?
      - yes

      Because of this, you dont expect CO to have flush often on the river, which is why we - hero - must bet/call - correct?
      -yes, also even if we thinkg co won´t always check back his flushdraws, he cans till have lower flushes in his range

      finally, if we are in CO's shoes and we do ch/b our 8c9c flush draw on turn (whatever the reason) we still shove our rivered flush for value? (we dont put pf raiser on flushes enough to just call)?
      - yes, It is hard just to put player on flushes and just call when he can b/c worse hands