Raising SB after limpers - advanced pre-flop (bronze)

    • paullallier
      paullallier
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.04.2009 Posts: 1
      Hi,

      I have a question about the bronze advanced pre-flop tables.

      Looking at the "Calling from the SB without any pre-flop raises" chart, I can understand that I should call (for instance) any suited hand with at least 2 limpers.

      However, there must be some hands that I should be raising (at least AKs, but what about AQs or AJs?), but this doesn't seem to be covered.

      Should I also be referring to another chart? Perhaps the raising entries in the "Actions against callers in front of you" chart?

      Thanks,
      Paul
  • 2 replies
    • TheOldNerd
      TheOldNerd
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.12.2010 Posts: 13
      My humbe opinion (won't pretend to be the expert here).

      What i do is consider the chart "Calling/Raising with raises and
      callers in front of you". If it tells me to raise, i do.

      When you have a very good hand, like AK, it will loose value if you're facing too many opponents. Raising, or 3-betting may convince some of the limpers to fold (less often on the fixed limits).

      Even if they stay, you've created a substantial pot with a very good starting hand. A pot that will likely increase, since it'll probably justify the odds for many draws.

      The hard part is, if the flop didn't hit you, you must be ready to fold if one of the limpers start showing too much strenght. Since i'm still a beginner, i seldom have the willpower to fold overcards or an overpair, unless my opponents play is very obvious.

      All the best,

      The Old Nerd
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      Paullallier asks a good question, and I don't have a quick answer. I don't raise everything which I think is ahead of the limpers' ranges due to the positional disadvantage, but I do raise hands like 99, ATs, KQs, and AQo. I think you miss too much value if you don't. Under some table conditions I raise a bit wider, such as if the big blind is tight, and will probably fold to a small blind raise after limpers. Some hands like 77 benefit from getting the big blind out of the hand.

      It is very surprising if any limper folds after a single raise in limit. Occasionally it is right to complete the small blind, but then fold if a tight player raises from the big blind, but that is a rare exception and few people will fold even if it is right. Sometimes people fold after posting a blind in the CO. Since people so rarely fold, the main consideration is value: Does your hand have a hot-and-cold advantage over your opponents' ranges? To make up for the positional disadvantage which may mean you fold the best hand a little more often, you want a larger edge than you would from the button to raise for value.

      Hands like AKo do fine in multiway pots. First, you don't mind seeing extra players in the pot with weak hands, since you win larger pots even though you win less often. Second, whether you want the last guy to enter the pot or not, you still have a big equity advantage, so it is very clearly worth it to put an extra small bet in if everyone else has to put one in with their K7s or 33. A hand like TT might not do as well against 4 limpers as it does against 2, but it still has a hot-and-cold equity advantage and should still be raised for value.

      After you raise a hand like AK or AQ preflop, you make the pot large enough that you should not be looking to fold on the flop for one bet except perhaps on the worst flops, like 876 monotone when you don't have a card of the suit and are not closing the action. The overcard outs may not be clean, but the pot-odds are great. On a drawy flop, I might not cbet AQ, and I might plan to fold if there is a bet and a raise, but on many dry flops I cbet with the intention of calling a single raise.