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Video Discussion - Doyle, Greenstein & Negreanu Clash

    • DanielUK
      Joined: 08.11.2010 Posts: 91
      This weeks video clip is a big hand between three cash game veterans, Doyle, Greenstein and Negreanu. There's some interesting decisions made by all the players throughout the hand and we want to know what you think of how the hands were played?

  • 7 replies
    • tryhardnoob
      Joined: 01.12.2010 Posts: 1,287
      I cant see a thing!
    • pleno1
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596

      Doyle: I like the fact that he is starting to "mix it up" he is reknowned for playing a little snug and usually with these kind of hands he limps which really polarises his range to medium/bad hands and with ZeeJustin and Veldhious (sp) behind he is just going to be bleeding money. Also with these players on his left I would probably fold pre as they will make your life hell.

      Greentein: If he is going to be 3betting here I guess this is an OK hand, flatting is OK as Doyle has a tight range and could easily four bet, 3bet folding AQdd FTL. I quite like his sizing though and he does have blockers ofc.
      Negreanu: I really like this flat call, I'm guessing that he is stuck in the game, he is known for playing pretty specuatively so calling here he has a really polarised range between 75s (he calls) and KK. Also if he cold 4bets here then Greenstein is going to have to fold SO MANY hands because he knows thast Greenstein knows that Doyle has a tight opening range.


      Greenstein: Cbet is standard I guess especially V Negreanu as he has quite alot of Queens in his range and he is also a calling station so will be calling with like 44-jj, because as we all know Greenstein famously cbets 100% of the time.

      Negreanu: I think raising here is an option, the board is so dry and it makes no sense for him to raise here with 33/44 espeically with Doyle behind and he "never" has AA/KK :p so its a spot where Greenstein could definitely over commit with an inferior hand. Calling and keeping Doyle in the hand and pot controlling/underepping our hand for future value on later streets.

      Doyle: Greenstein cbets 100% of the time we know that, Negreanues perceived range is 44-jj Imo with some bad Queens, we are now in position with a pair and a BD straight flush draw, although I think the call is optimisitc I think it is fine if you are happy playing post flop as you can win the pot a high % of the time in this exact scenario.

      Turn: I'm really unsure on stack sizes so it is really hard to comment, I quite like to c/raise all in if I'm Greenstein, as QK/QJ combo draws like 5xdd will probably bet/call it off depending on stack sizes. I also don't mind C/C too much as some straights/two pairs did get there and if we c/raise all in we fold out all of his bluffing rangec (if he is turning 77 or something into a bluff)

      Negreanu: I'm probably bet/getting it in V Greenstein, I know I can see the hands, but Greenstein will be c/shoving with hands like AQdd, KQdd, JQdd and I think sometimes (not always) he would just keep bet/betting with KK/AA as he has a blocker to the Queen so its harder for him to get paiiiiiid as they usually have underpairs/straight draws (they will now fold because paired board) but may take a "stab"

      Doyle: Again really depends on stack sizes, I don't mind betting small here and then shoving the river to polarise out range to 3's/flushes and air/weak hands turned into a bluff. So really hard to comment from here.

      Greenstein x2: He decides to call now. I've no idea what he puts Doyle on but I know he thinks Negreanu is a calling station so its best to call now, also he can shove some rivers for value and make it look like Adx on certain cards where he CANT have it, and Negranu knows it etc. So plan to call now and shove any river is pretty good.

      Negreanu X2: I for sure think I have the best hand now, shoving is OK as Greenstein can have lots of Queens and it looks like we are taking the line of "well i'm getting good price with my FD lets do it. Especially something liek A4dd etc.

      Greenstein: I think this is a pretty easy shove one of Negreanu/Doyle has at least a queen at this point and sometimes flushes, they will alwyas shove their flushes but always check back queens so we miss out on so much value by just c/calling now. I don't think Doyle would shove this river as a bluff into two players especially when one is Negreanu as he knows he calls so many rivers.

      Negreanu: I'm actually surprised by Negreanu's fold, not because its terrible, but becasue Daniel Fkn Negreanu folded an overpair on a Q343X board.

      Doyle: It's one of those FML moments, but he haz tripzzzzz.
    • z1pz0r
      Joined: 12.08.2009 Posts: 981
      oh please it's easy river fold even with trips, he fckin donkshoves AI after both negreanu and doyle could have flush draws, full houses ...
      it looks to me like doyle has turned into some kind of fish, trying to loosen up and calling 3bets with hands like 36s (okay he got pretty good odds but still)
    • NightFrostaSS
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Originally posted by tryhardnoob
      I cant see a thing!
      Hal, is that you?
    • NightFrostaSS
      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      as for the hand, I'd fold
    • NatRPheM
      Joined: 05.10.2008 Posts: 391
      The way Daniel played the hand he cant ever call river there cause when is Greenstein ever gonna try to bluff Doyle in that spot?
      I think Doyle`s call is absolutly awful since I dont see it being a bluff ever with the rep that Doyle has and Greenstein himself isnt the loosest of players and def not in a spot like that against Doyle(They have way more history than I can ever imagine but I base my opinion from what I have seen myself, can`t speculate on what has happened before). I am actually quite suprised to see Doyle call there. But again I can only base my opinion on the history I have seen between them and that is not very much taking into account the 1000`s of times they have played eachother.

      Really not satisfied with the analyzing but that`s all I got for now, might take a deeper look into it later. Feels kinda awkward since there is just so much background info in that hand since Doyle makes that call and I just can`t remember seeing to much bluffs from Greenstein in spots like that against Doyle. Daniel could have a FD on the turn himself with Q9dd QTdd QJdd AQdd KQdd(assuming Greenstein was bluffing, then decided to shove the river repping a FH? in which case his ONLY likely holding would be Qs full given the preflop action).
    • Zhalera
      Joined: 01.10.2010 Posts: 90
      not a great call of Brunson..