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[Closed] 12 AKs FD + SD on board

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stevegold87
Joined: 18.06.2009

1st hand of the SNG...

Do you play it that way too?

Full Tilt Poker $11 + $1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 9 players - View hand 1222368
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: t1485 49.50 BBs
SB: t1515 50.50 BBs
BB: t1500 50 BBs
UTG: t1500 50 BBs
UTG+1: t1500 50 BBs
UTG+2: t1500 50 BBs
MP1: t1500 50 BBs
Hero (MP2): t1500 50 BBs
CO: t1500 50 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is MP2 with A :club: K :club:
2 folds, UTG+2 raises to t60, 1 fold, Hero raises to t180, 4 folds, UTG+2 calls t120

Flop: (t405) Q :club: T :spade: 4 :club: (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets t210, UTG+2 calls t210

Turn: (t825) 9 :spade: (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets t1110 all in, UTG+2 requests TIME, UTG+2 calls t1110 all in

River: (t3045) 6 :heart: (2 players - 2 are all in)

Check turn here?


10 replies

usually just flat it pre.

as played cbet slightly bigger so you can ship turn comfortably.

as played, turn is a shove for me 2 overs + gutter + NFD. so much equity and fold equity (he can easily fold Tx or a weak Qx)


zamoda
Joined: 16.03.2009

Originally posted by lessthanthreee
usually just flat it pre.

as played cbet slightly bigger so you can ship turn comfortably.

as played, turn is a shove for me 2 overs + gutter + NFD. so much equity and fold equity (he can easily fold Tx or a weak Qx)

Why flat it pre, its just a min raise from utg...


Originally posted by zamoda

Originally posted by lessthanthreee
usually just flat it pre.

as played cbet slightly bigger so you can ship turn comfortably.

as played, turn is a shove for me 2 overs + gutter + NFD. so much equity and fold equity (he can easily fold Tx or a weak Qx)

Why flat it pre, its just a min raise from utg...

what's your plan if he 4bet shoves? are you calling? why? what is his 4bet shove range?

dont just 3bet because 'omg he min-raised' you need to have a good reason to 3bet.

the only reason to 3bet is if hes loose enough to go broke against pre-flop. otherwise its a standard flat call.


stevegold87
Joined: 18.06.2009

The problem by flatting here is I think we are inviting all the people with low pocket pairs to set mine ....Also don't we want to build a big pot with AKs?


VBZg
Joined: 06.12.2009

Originally posted by stevegold87
The problem by flatting here is I think we are inviting all the people with low pocket pairs to set mine ....Also don't we want to build a big pot with AKs?

Ye i see the same problme over and over again, especially when they minR. I am afraid of SB and BB entering the pot, or some other limper. What happens is that when i hit TPTK i have like 3-4 players with me, and in those sitations i want at least 2 pairs. AKs is reasonoble for just calling minR, after all we have flush possibilities, but what with AKo? I mean what flop am i expecting by not isolating minraiser (and there is some more limpers behind me)*? Then again, if he 4bet shoves, ye, we have only A high hand in early stage of tournament. Hope <3 comment a bit that. Thx

*added (edit)


yes that is a small concern. but the questions i posed above are more important imo.

if you 3bet AK just because he min-raised you are making a clear mistake. you need to have a plan and understand why you are 3betting. you 3bet for value and so that you can comfortably call a 4bet shove against a loose range (if you suddenly get a snap shove from the OR what do you do? obviously you cant 3bet/fold but you just isolate yourself against a very tight range if you 3bet unknowns).

if you just blindly 3bet because you want to thin the field you are definitely going to be getting into some very bad situations. playing a multi-way pot with AK isnt the best, but id much rather play 3 or 4way with position than blindly bloat the pot without any reason or reads behind it. and 3betting to isolate isnt a strong enough reason for me to 3bet.

I still think 3betting is profitable on this limit because many unknowns will call a 3bet and fold to a cbet, but IMO playing a smaller pot with position and a drawing hand where we clearly arent comfortable calling a 4bet shove is much better.

AKs does also play a lot better multi-way compared to AKo. so if i thought it was close i would much rather flat with AKs and 3bet AKo.

STT strategy is a lot tighter compared to other forms (ie. MTTs). STTs value survival a lot more than chip accumulation. And while your early stage risk-aversion is still quite low, you need good solid reads to be able to comfortable go broke with AK pre for 50BBs. 2 years ago 3bet/calling AKo was very very standard even on mid-stakes because the 4bet/get it in ranges of the fish were so wide. It is my personal opinion that in today's games you should flat AK vs unknowns because their 4bet ranges on average are a lot tighter.


VBZg
Joined: 06.12.2009

thx <3, quickly, clearly, and straight forwardly :f_biggrin:


just for fun this is how much equity u need against his 4bet range to call pre.

Equity needed: 48.26%
Chip odds: 43.35%
Risk premium: 4.91%

so with AKs and AKo you need him to 4bet shove AQo+ 99+.

It will happen sometimes, but unknowns on average will not 4bet/get it in on the first hand with 99 and AQ even at these stakes IMO.


stevegold87
Joined: 18.06.2009

Very nice post <3,

Just a fish question, why can't we 3bet fold? I mean we are only spending for example 180 of our stack here...


Originally posted by stevegold87
Very nice post <3,

Just a fish question, why can't we 3bet fold? I mean we are only spending for example 180 of our stack here...

because our hand has enough value and implied odds without reads to play the pot and not turn it into a bluff by 3bet/folding.