MSS Basic Does Not Work! - > Proof me Wrong!

    • mineriva
      mineriva
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.04.2008 Posts: 913
      INTRODUCTION:

      I have been playing online poker for 6 years and have been a member here for about 3 years. I played SSS and BSS profitably up to 100NL and was looking forward to the new MSS.

      I tried it and it does not work!. The whole system is designed for value betting meaning that we bet thinking we have the best hand. This simply does not happen any longer that a donkey calls all 4 streets with a worse hand.

      Last month I played 22K hands on different sites and different stakes ranging from 10NL (caped and non caped ) and 5NL Rush and 10NL Rush. I ended $47 down at a rate of just under -1BB/100. Specifically of all the hands there is not one hand where I preflop raise and got called on each street by a weaker hand!

      I thought I was doing something wrong until I saw the new video posted by Gev.

      VIDEO:

      In the video posted by Gev we see him play 3 tables 5NL Rush for just over 30min. We see him getting it allin 3 times before the river. Of the 3 hands the most equity we have is about 60% when we get it allin preflop BBvsSB for about 10BB. The biggest pot was the 3-way pot where we had 34% equity.

      The net effect of the video (according to my calculations) left Gev $3.35 or 33.5BB down! This after we held up with the 53% equity KK hand. So, al though I did not calculate it, IMHO his win rate (or lose rate in this case) was above the allin equity!

      CHALLENGE:

      I hereby challenge ANY COACH to play a live session of at least 200 hands 100% according to the charts profitably!

      I am willing to put my money where my mouth is and I wager $20 that it cannot be done.
  • 19 replies
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Tell me why PokerStrategy.com - among the biggest in the industry - is releasing a strategy that makes you a loser?

      And please explain & illustrate how variance is affecting your potential wins or losses in 1 single session. Yes I lost $3-$5 in that video - I don't know if you counted them single handily or I told the audience - but it's a fact but you use it as an argument.
      Means that if I find any video on the internet with the instructor having 2 setups against them, do I then have to think that particular strategy is losing? come on.

      Sincerely,
      Gerv

      PS Your challenge is a pure gamble because it only contains 200 hands and therefore if we measure standard deviation, well you know the rest I hope.
    • jeangab123
      jeangab123
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.01.2011 Posts: 122
      *hemm*
      1k hands using MSS
    • IflopMonsters
      IflopMonsters
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.12.2010 Posts: 28
      To OP - Can I participate in your challenge?
    • kazediel
      kazediel
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.11.2009 Posts: 5,259
      I want to participate too! Easy money! :D
    • tcs35
      tcs35
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 3,583
      i don't even play mss or understand how it works but i am willing to bet against you that the coach will win but it needs to be over a larger sample. even phil ivey can lose after 200 hands
    • alejandrosh
      alejandrosh
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2008 Posts: 4,346
      Originally posted by mineriva
      I am willing to put my money where my mouth is and I wager $20 that it cannot be done.
      lol , this can't be serious
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
      Not a PS coach or a MSS player, but I see your bet sir :D
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,295
    • Jehryn
      Jehryn
      Bronze
      Joined: 15.04.2008 Posts: 678
      Originally posted by w34z3l
      ²
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      OMG v Gerv? lol = fish
    • kingkong2
      kingkong2
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.03.2008 Posts: 88
      i just finished your challange......i did it by the chart 98% by the chart,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,NL .10 85 hands BB/100=15.82 $4.31 PROFIT,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,NL .25 47 hands BB/100=133.11 $31.28 profit,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,NL .50 85 hands BB/100=-3.74 -$3.18,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,good or bad thats how i did on PKR
    • noisecore
      noisecore
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.04.2010 Posts: 5,221
      Here's my cup of tea to prove that MSS does work

      Ok it's not all basic strategy but all my moves are kinda based on the basic strategy and charts which in some cases you can deviate from.





      Gimme my 20 bucks! :D
    • gadget51
      gadget51
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.06.2008 Posts: 5,622
      WOW! Now THAT...is a nice chart. TYVM!
    • roopopper
      roopopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      Originally posted by noisecore
      Here's my cup of tea to prove that MSS does work

      Ok it's not all basic strategy but all my moves are kinda based on the basic strategy and charts which in some cases you can deviate from.





      Gimme my 20 bucks! :D
      this is why I'm here!!! :P good work!!!!
    • biogas
      biogas
      Gold
      Joined: 22.07.2010 Posts: 384
      my graph is not that nice over 14K



      According to filters, the -500bb were lost are mostly on the blinds (stolen). Preflop raises, 3bets and cbets ok, 4bets ok (AK is exception).
    • roopopper
      roopopper
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.12.2010 Posts: 4,289
      Originally posted by biogas
      my graph is not that nice over 14K



      According to filters, the -500bb were lost are mostly on the blinds (stolen). Preflop raises, 3bets and cbets ok, 4bets ok (AK is exception).
      What level were you playing at? sorry the graph is too small for me to see, what do you think went wrong?
    • biogas
      biogas
      Gold
      Joined: 22.07.2010 Posts: 384
      Around 300bb lost after flop by my own mistakes.
      Some lost 4bet/push from MP/late/blinds with AK.
      And 1.8Kbb on the blinds (folded blind pre or check/fold flop).
    • AKM247
      AKM247
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.05.2010 Posts: 412
      Originally posted by noisecore
      Here's my cup of tea to prove that MSS does work

      Ok it's not all basic strategy but all my moves are kinda based on the basic strategy and charts which in some cases you can deviate from.





      Gimme my 20 bucks! :D
      Heya,

      What would you say was the fundamental element in your success please mate?

      Thanks,
      AKM
    • Wampa76
      Wampa76
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.03.2011 Posts: 236
      Originally posted by noisecore
      Here's my cup of tea to prove that MSS does work

      Ok it's not all basic strategy but all my moves are kinda based on the basic strategy and charts which in some cases you can deviate from.





      Gimme my 20 bucks! :D
      This is my big motivation. :s_cry: