SSS on tables with average VPIP 14-22

    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
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      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      I think i found at least one of the mistakes that causes my losess. Im playing on too tight tables.

      Table selection article recommends to look for people with VPIP 30 or more a table with ~23VPIP has pleyers VPIP range from 8 - 24. On average my database has 300k hands on NL50 ( from all players ) with VPIP average of 21, and 520k hands on NL25 with average VPIP of 20.
      I dont have data from other sites, would be nice if someone has to share.

      Usual table on Full Tilt at NL25 or NL50 has these stats, very hard to find better than 22 VPIP.

      Tables are 9 max.

      Im lookin for advice playing on tables with VPIP 22 max PFR is around 10 ( tables has these stats not the players ).
      Is the same chart, with same ranges ( raises, etc. ) works well ?
      Or some adjustments would be good ?
      Or dont worth to play at all theses tables ?
  • 10 replies
    • xylere
      xylere
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      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      well, I don`t think average vpip or PFR will affect your income too much. It is often enough to have one or two overagressive players with high PFR, who will throw a lot of action pre-flop. Just review your base and mark those players.

      I also wrote some thoughts on table selection in my blog, you can check it out.
    • frzl
      frzl
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      Joined: 25.04.2006 Posts: 9,876
      sry for off topic but @xylere: shouldn´t you be at least gold ?

      and a link to your blog would be nice... think i missed something :)
    • xylere
      xylere
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      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      gold?)) I should be 3 times diamond already) the problem is, I registered on mansion before PS came there) And I am definately going to fix this problem as soon as I will be back from vacation. I mean start playing on PS registered pokerroom.

      My blog: Size does matter - a career of a short stack player)
    • frzl
      frzl
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      Joined: 25.04.2006 Posts: 9,876
      thx for the link
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
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      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      My experience shows, that if there's one player with VPIP 30+, than table VPIP is over 25. If there's two of them its usually over 30.
      So all in all, it doesnt effect anything to play on tighter tables ? I didnt mean win rate ( of course its worse ), but im curious about playing the SHC, or playing after flop. Its good as it is than.
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
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      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      I would like to know, if some1 else has similar data from other poker sites ( average VPIP of players on a given limit ).
    • xylere
      xylere
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      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      Originally posted by Utahmar
      So all in all, it doesnt effect anything to play on tighter tables ? I didnt mean win rate ( of course its worse ), but im curious about playing the SHC, or playing after flop. Its good as it is than.
      Well, the table average can not affect your play against particular opponent)) I mean, it doesn`t make any sense)) But, of course, you adjust your play against different opponents based on their statistics. both pre-flop and post flop.

      average vpip of the limit wouldn`t be accurate at all, for that you need huge DB and exclude people with less then 1000 hands from calculations. even then it won`t be very accurate)
    • Utahmar
      Utahmar
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      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 2,414
      I meant with average, that you play overall tighter players. Its good to have a loose player, but usually he got stacked quite soon by the other 8 tight player. And money moves around between tight ones, through the loose one, when the loose one got lucky on a tight one ... :D

      What i see is :

      Usually there's a raise before me, so i play less hands overall.
      Not much dead money out there.
      Not too many situations for a steal, so blinds hurt.
      Cant play the number of tables i would, because there are many tables, but i dont feel i got right edge on a table with low vpip.

      Maybe this is just came to my mind, because i struggle at FT, and not getting anywhere up.
    • xylere
      xylere
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      Joined: 27.05.2007 Posts: 2,939
      well, if the players around are that tight you can steal more... thats the obvious adjustment that came into my mind. Also I think you can play at any table on your limit.

      And finally, maybe try to change pokerroom and see how it goes.
    • ccookie
      ccookie
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      Joined: 01.12.2007 Posts: 68
      Other sites: no datamining, but here's my observations from Stars and Party.

      The average across the site does not matter to me. Indeed, nobody makes me play "average" tables - I don't play a gazillion tables a time, so can make my picks.

      In 7K NL25 hands I played on those sites combined, the average players/flop in a session is 27%. Note the average includes me already, and I can be rather nitty and/or cool down potential limpers by some unprovoked agression ;)

      Another approach w/o datamining is just to look at the lobby. Right now on Stars there are at least 40 FR NL25/PL25 tables with Players/flop 35% or more. (Out of total 130 tables or so.) So there are good games.

      Never played at FT, one of the reasons being the impression games are tougher than on other sites.