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[Closed] Folding kings preflop?

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swissmoumout
Joined: 24.02.2007

Hi,
After running into aces 3 times today with KK, plus a lot more times before, it got me thinking... can you lay down KK preflop to a 4-bet?
I'm not talking about midstacks/shortstacks/total fish, there it's an easy push. But imagine this: you're against a more or less tight player, he raises 4bb. you reraise to 12-14BB and he 4-bets to ~40BB. What hands does he do this with? Only KK and AA come to mind. QQ in most cases just calls the 3-bet, same goes for JJ-TT.
So, in which situations do you fold KK preflop?

1) When the original raiser 4-bets (assuming he's relatively tight)
2) When there's been 3 raises before you (OK, unlikely but still )
3) Same as 2, but you're one of the raisers (either open raiser or 3-better). e.g you raise, CO 3-bets, BB 4-bets
4) Never fold KK's preflop!

This is almost worth a poll, don't you think? ;)


14 replies
Drakhor
Joined: 13.01.2008

Definitely #4! If there's 3 raisers, there's a big chance they raise with a lower pocket pair than yours, or with something like AJ, AQ, AK, so there's only 1 ace left in the deck. And what are the chances that it shows up in the community cards?

But then again, what do I know? I'm just a Bronze... :rolleyes:


Being bronze means nothing :O. All suggestions are good to hear..

I would answer something like : 1), 2) and 3) . Feeling > 4). If you can be almost sure he's holding AA, a fold is good. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think folding KK preflop is a big mistake :rolleyes:


drachdudek
Joined: 06.11.2007

fellings...:):) Xylere would say, "forget about fellings", but u think feelings can sometimes save you...i had AK today in NL25. Villain raised 6BB..i sad WTF! he raised a lot...and said to my self "for shure he is holding AA"...of course i went all-in and he was holding AA :)


Yeh, the same thing happened to me yesterday at Mansion. Fortunately I was holding AA


Puschkin81
Joined: 14.04.2006

4 ! 4 ! 4 ! 4 ! 4 ! 4 ! 4 ! 4 ! 4 ! 4 ! 4 ! 4 !

Good luck at the tables!
Puschkin81


KillaKHAN
Joined: 02.04.2007

double post


KillaKHAN
Joined: 02.04.2007

Originally posted by Drakhor
Definitely #4! If there's 3 raisers, there's a big chance they raise with a lower pocket pair than yours, or with something like AJ, AQ, AK, so there's only 1 ace left in the deck. And what are the chances that it shows up in the community cards?

But then again, what do I know? I'm just a Bronze... :rolleyes:

reread the post...

you can lay kings down but I guess you need some good stats from the Villain.

His pf raise puts a tight player on any pocket pair (probably 77+), AK, AQ, maybe AJs, maybe KQs.

His 4 bet should narrow it to AA, KK maybe QQ, JJ or AK.

I'd fold depending on the info in 2 (if this means raise, 3bet, 3 bet) and 3 maybe.


xylere
Joined: 28.05.2007

The problem is you need to have 100% accurate feelings to make this fold +EV. If you are wrong in 1 out of 4 spots (he is holding QQ, for instance), it becomes -EV.

4)


whipflip15
Joined: 25.11.2006

With 100BB i am not folding unless i have some kind of super read. Deep stacked i may be folding but i would need some kind of read.

EDIT: It depends on what limit. I've just started playing 100NL and found more people 3 betting light which results in 4betting with AK, QQ more often. So i'm not folding on NL100


Faye6891
Joined: 09.11.2007

Without some very good reads on villain I'm not folding KK PF.

Well, and against a player that has a PFR of 1%, I think it's safe to fold KK after he 4-bet...


When tight BSS UTG 4-bets I lay down my KK almost every time:)
Happily that never almost happens.


i think your image counts here too ... if you have a preaty tight image and a tight player 4 bets you may fold sometimes ... if you have a lag image you cant fold it never ...
anyway for 100 bb i will never fold kk preflop


xylere
Joined: 28.05.2007

you still can not guess with 80% accuracy, especially on higher limits, where even very tight players are capable of making strange moves from time to time)


I have the same...