Unbalanced Lines

    • Gabinr1
      Gabinr1
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.04.2009 Posts: 7,755
      What are the most common unbalanced lines in poker?

      I will start:

      *(Open) limping preflop. [can't be balanced]

      * 3barrel. Bet-Bet-Bet. [very strong]

      * Cbet flop - Check (/F) Turn. [very weak]


      I know, most can be balanced and the ones that can't should be removed from our play - given that we have an observant opponent. What other commonly unbalanced lines do you know?
  • 15 replies
    • gsergiul
      gsergiul
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      Joined: 26.11.2010 Posts: 234
      * Cbet flop - C/F Turn.
      Why is this unbalanced? You can start check raising with both air and value hands if he starts taking stabs, or if he checks betting rivers with both air and value hands as above.
    • Gabinr1
      Gabinr1
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      Joined: 05.04.2009 Posts: 7,755
      Originally posted by gsergiul
      * Cbet flop - C/F Turn.
      Why is this unbalanced? You can start check raising with both air and value hands if he starts taking stabs, or if he checks betting rivers with both air and value hands as above.
      It can be unbalanced, nits for example play this. I'm not talking about how to balance them, but about what lines players take that are unbalanced (style/player dependent) that we can attack or repair for ourselves.
    • Tim64
      Tim64
      Black
      Joined: 02.11.2008 Posts: 7,401
      Originally posted by gsergiul
      * Cbet flop - C/F Turn.
      Why is this unbalanced? You can start check raising with both air and value hands if he starts taking stabs, or if he checks betting rivers with both air and value hands as above.
      I am not 100% sure, but I believe this line is unbalanced because we only take it with our weak hands.

      For example, we raise AA preflop and get called by loose passive calling station on the button. Flop 42Qr. We know he never folds with at least one pair, instead calling all the way to the River. We also know he raises only two pair or better.

      Now, given this information we will Cbet flop - C/F Turn with a hand like AJ. However, we are not ever doing this with aces. (Of course we're not - that would be idiotic). Nevertheless, the fact that we are not doing this with strong hands means that it is, in fact, unbalanced.

      However, against this particular imaginary opponent the unbalanced line is the correct line.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
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      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      River raises, obviously...

      Oh, add turn check-raises...

      The thing is though, that players are so unbalanced that it's just best to be unbalanced yourself and exploit them to the max. Rock/paper/scissors style...
    • THESHade
      THESHade
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      Joined: 25.03.2010 Posts: 5,418
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      River raises, obviously...

      Oh, add turn check-raises...

      The thing is though, that players are so unbalanced that it's just best to be unbalanced yourself and exploit them to the max. Rock/paper/scissors style...
      Listen to the coach
    • gsergiul
      gsergiul
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      Joined: 26.11.2010 Posts: 234
      Originally posted by Tim64
      Originally posted by gsergiul
      * Cbet flop - C/F Turn.
      Why is this unbalanced? You can start check raising with both air and value hands if he starts taking stabs, or if he checks betting rivers with both air and value hands as above.
      I am not 100% sure, but I believe this line is unbalanced because we only take it with our weak hands.

      For example, we raise AA preflop and get called by loose passive calling station on the button. Flop 42Qr. We know he never folds with at least one pair, instead calling all the way to the River. We also know he raises only two pair or better.

      Now, given this information we will Cbet flop - C/F Turn with a hand like AJ. However, we are not ever doing this with aces. (Of course we're not - that would be idiotic). Nevertheless, the fact that we are not doing this with strong hands means that it is, in fact, unbalanced.

      However, against this particular imaginary opponent the unbalanced line is the correct line.
      My bad, I have yet a lot to learn, I'm not saying what I said is true just didn't understand why it's unbalanced, and I can say the same for the bet bet bet line.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
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      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Why the big interest in unbalanced lines anyway?
    • Gabinr1
      Gabinr1
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      Joined: 05.04.2009 Posts: 7,755
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Why the big interest in unbalanced lines anyway?
      I want to have a clearer more concrete visual of all/most of the lines that most/some players play unbalanced. So I could better conceptualize when to attack/fold and also to be aware of my own (or balance if villain is observant and acts on it).

      Basically to improve my poker.


      Another line:

      - 3bet dry flop ip [very weak] (also known as yeti theorem)
    • Wriggers
      Wriggers
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      Joined: 21.07.2009 Posts: 3,250
      I don't think 3 barrelling is necessarily unbalanced, as a lot of players are capable of barrelling the flop and the turn with a draw and then following through on the river even if it's incomplete :)
    • gsergiul
      gsergiul
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      Joined: 26.11.2010 Posts: 234
      Originally posted by Gabinr1
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Why the big interest in unbalanced lines anyway?
      I want to have a clearer more concrete visual of all/most of the lines that most/some players play unbalanced. So I could better conceptualize when to attack/fold and also to be aware of my own (or balance if villain is observant and acts on it).

      Basically to improve my poker.


      Another line:

      - 3bet dry flop ip [very weak] (also known as yeti theorem)
      When I see this @ fr its mostly a monster but then again I play chump stakes.
    • MasochisticDesire
      MasochisticDesire
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      Joined: 25.10.2010 Posts: 486
      Still a little uncertain of what you mean by unbalanced, I assume you are talking generally if these lines are used frequently as it would seem that all the lines mentioned above could be profitable in an appropriate situation.

      Any reasons three barrelling is unbalanced as long as we are aware that we polarise our range on the river and minimise any bluff catching opportunities?


      Em C16 - 'Oh, add turn check-raises...'

      I don't doubt your right but can you go into a little detail for me.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
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      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Usually, a turn c/r by a "standard TAG" is a strong made hand. Thus, our oppnent is unbalanced (he is weighted a lot towards made hands).

      LE: I'm no range balancing expert, just said the lines where I think NL25-NL50 players are unbalanced, apart from those mentioned by Gabi.
    • Laggsy
      Laggsy
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      Joined: 04.09.2010 Posts: 301
      I think that alot of those lines in the OP that you are calling unbalanced are perfectly true for terrble-amateur players. However the good-great player can easily balance these lines. So this is all player specific.

      I think the most unbalanced thing ever is the limp-3bet. It is quite amusing and it is almost always AA or KK. Ive tried this a few times and it hasd never worked just cause its so obvious. However, everyspot that seems super obvious makes it the perfect spot to bluff in, because the line, 'He's never bluffing here', always comes in.

      River raises are a good play and one of the best ways to balance your river play. Cause it always looks strong, you just need to throw a bluff out there 1 in every 15-20 times and if you get called, all of a sudden every single one of your river raises is getting paid off.
    • Wriggers
      Wriggers
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      Joined: 21.07.2009 Posts: 3,250
      Another move that people think is unbalanced is raising a cbet on monotone boards :D People think that they will only ever do that with flushes, of course he could do it with nut flush draw, but people like suited cards, so he more likely has a flush ofcourse?

      It seems people do think this way because i've started to throw in some raise-bluffs on monotone boards, I usually get a call on the flop but they always fold to continued aggression on the turn :D
    • Laggsy
      Laggsy
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      Joined: 04.09.2010 Posts: 301
      Good Wriggers. I love this play too.

      Its cause your range is super polarised (except for nut flush draw), U either are raising with the flush or u have got nothing at all. And so often on those boards its just impossible to call down with 1pair os 2pair.