William Hill VIP Scheme

    • DtotheC
      DtotheC
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.11.2010 Posts: 259


      [SIZE=14]How does the William Hill VIP Scheme work?[/SIZE]

      Earn William Hill (WH) Points for tournament fees or cash game rake according to the following:
      • 34 per €1
      • 41 per £1

      William Hill Points can be exchanged for bonuses and cash, with increasing value the more you save up and exchange in one go. The higher your VIP level, the greater the value of this exchange is, due to their "Club Status Multiplier" which we will explain below.


      [SIZE=14]William Hill Status Level and Points Multiplier[/SIZE]

      In the table you see how many William Hill Points and rake are required for each VIP level. It also outlines what multiplier you get:



      Note: William Hill updates the VIP levels daily. Unused Club Points expire after 12 months.


      [SIZE=14]Cashback: Bonuses and Cash[/SIZE]

      Below are the bonuses and cash amounts you can trade your points for and the amount of points required for each. The table also gives an idea of the approximate cashback you would see for each bonus/cash amount at each VIP Level:






      Related Topics

      William Hill: Promotions & Information

      Download / Install William Hill Poker
  • 35 replies
    • ttetti90
      ttetti90
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.10.2009 Posts: 78
      why you get lower rakeback % when you cash 40K. This makes no sense. It must have some mistake. Higher level you cash higher rakeback you get. Am I right? is the chart wrong?
    • DtotheC
      DtotheC
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.11.2010 Posts: 259
      Originally posted by ttetti90
      why you get lower rakeback % when you cash 40K. This makes no sense. It must have some mistake. Higher level you cash higher rakeback you get. Am I right? is the chart wrong?
      Hey ttetti90,

      I agree, I think it is a mistake, but it isnt on our end. I essentially got all of the point requirements from the WH website and then converted them according to multiplier given at each VIP level.

      So I am pretty certain that the information provided in this thread is correct. What I find most likely is that there is a simple error on the WH website and that the rakeback for the 40k trade in is higher, but I didnt want to just make it up, so I used the figures they provided.

      If you have any more questions about WH VIP system, just let me know and I will try and find the answer for you.

      KR,

      David
    • ttetti90
      ttetti90
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.10.2009 Posts: 78
      So it is mistake. I can get 40K eventually and no to be worry about it.

      Thanks for the info.
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      Is there an explanation why the system is so "unfair" for headsup players?

      For example the rakecap is $1 on $20/40 Fixed Limit headsup. This means that each player receives 6 WH Points, even though they paid $0.50 in rake for that. This means you only get 12 WH Points for every $ in rake, whereas you get 30 per $ rake in SNG/MTT (and I guess they try to get around that number aswell for 6max/FR). This is only 40% which is a really big difference.

      I saw that iPoker was going to change some things in their rake system such as weighted contributed, will they also change the way their VIP points are distributed or not?
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,923
      Originally posted by Yoghi
      Is there an explanation why the system is so "unfair" for headsup players?

      For example the rakecap is $1 on $20/40 Fixed Limit headsup. This means that each player receives 6 WH Points, even though they paid $0.50 in rake for that. This means you only get 12 WH Points for every $ in rake, whereas you get 30 per $ rake in SNG/MTT (and I guess they try to get around that number aswell for 6max/FR). This is only 40% which is a really big difference.

      I saw that iPoker was going to change some things in their rake system such as weighted contributed, will they also change the way their VIP points are distributed or not?
      Hi Yoghi,

      I will take a look into this and an answer to you asap.

      Best regards,
      Gary
    • DtotheC
      DtotheC
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.11.2010 Posts: 259
      Originally posted by Yoghi
      Is there an explanation why the system is so "unfair" for headsup players?

      For example the rakecap is $1 on $20/40 Fixed Limit headsup. This means that each player receives 6 WH Points, even though they paid $0.50 in rake for that. This means you only get 12 WH Points for every $ in rake, whereas you get 30 per $ rake in SNG/MTT (and I guess they try to get around that number aswell for 6max/FR). This is only 40% which is a really big difference.

      I saw that iPoker was going to change some things in their rake system such as weighted contributed, will they also change the way their VIP points are distributed or not?
      Looking to get you a full and decent answer Yoghi.

      My initial thoughts are that it comes down to rake generation per hour. For HU, every hand is a raked hand, which means your rake generation and point generation is much faster than for say FR or 6 max.

      For SnGs, you pay your entry fee and then the game will run for 35-45 minutes. So your max number of tables + time takes to finish a game caps how many points you can earn per hour.

      So I agree that the points per dollar rake is a lot a lower for HU players than for SnG, but I think that the points per hour is fairly comparable assuming you can get the action.

      This is just an educated guess, which I will look to confirm for you mate.

      Does that make any sense?

      KR,

      David
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      No ;)

      The points are based on how much $ the rake was. On this page you can see the amount.

      For headsup the cap is either $1 or $2, so that means whenever you see a flop you will get either 6 or 13 points, and you contributed $0.50 or $1. This results in 12 or 13 points per $ rake. It doesn't have anything to do with time.

      I dont know exactly how it works in 6max, but I assume everybody gets the points, even when you didnt pay part of the rake.
    • Gerv
      Gerv
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      Originally posted by Yoghi
      I dont know exactly how it works in 6max, but I assume everybody gets the points, even when you didnt pay part of the rake.
      No J , iPoker uses Average Contributed till March. That means when you fold preflop and did not put any penny in the pot, you are excluded from the Rake entitlement

      If you are BB and folded, you are entitled because you contribute something to the pot. The allocation is divided among the entitled persons equally with average contributed. That means that when you are BB, you fold and turns out 2 other persons play a huge pot worth $3 rake, you get 24 points, the other 2 persons as well.

      Regarding the $rake allocated to you, thats $1 then

      After March the BB get's way less than the other 2 because it is then weighted to how much you put in the put.


      It does suck for you regarding the rake cap with HU but then again I prefer to have a $1 cap on my 6max tables rather than $3 and get ''more % rakeback'' relatively.

      You pay less rake => your WR potential is higher
    • DtotheC
      DtotheC
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.11.2010 Posts: 259
      Originally posted by Gerv
      You pay less rake => your WR potential is higher
      Cheers Gerv, my thoughts exactly.

      iPoker uses weighted contributed so you only get allocated rake and therefore points when you contribute to the pot. Since in HU you are always contributing to the pot, you will generate points much faster playing HU than you will playing FR or SH.

      I suspect that this is the reason for HU cap being the way it is, although I appreciate that knowing this doesnt give you back the edge lost by paying a lot of rake.

      KR,

      DC
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      This isn't really my problem though.

      I find it strange that when I play HUSNG I get 30 points per $ rake, but when I play FLHU cashgames I get either 12 or 13 points, depending on the rake cap. This difference just seems way too big for me and I was wondering why there is such a big difference.
    • Jitroceler
      Jitroceler
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.05.2010 Posts: 217
      Hi, I was asking the WH support with this. The difference (STTrake/points - CASHGAMErake/points) is way too high for me also. They were still answering that you are generating rake much faster on cashgame than on STT/MTT. But it isn´t really the asnwer.

      For 1usd raked on STT/MTT you have got 30 points.
      For 1usd raked (in single pot) in cashgame you have got 6 points.

      I know that I will propably generate the same amount of points at STT/MTT and cashgame in the same time. But the problem is the rake/rakeback ratio than.

      Without point boosters for example.
      SNG player is going for 30.000pts for 1.000usd raked. (25usd bonus from shop for 28.750pts)
      CASH player is going for aprox 6000pts for 1000usd raked (almost 5usd bonus from shop for 7250 points)
      .
      This is my problem and I believe also Yoghi´s problem.

      Btw on Titan poker it is 4points for cashplayer and 17points for tournament player when 1usd is raked.
      On Pokerstars you have got 5,5 Vpp for 1usd in tournament rake and
      $0.01/$0.02 10 points for 1usd rake
      $0.02/$0.05 8.5 points for 1usd rake
      $0.05/$0.10 7 points for 1 usd rake

      I hope you can understand depsite my english skill :)
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      You're not really correct, because when it is raked on cashgame tables everybody who put $ in the put will get 6 points if there is 1USD rake. In headsup this means you pay $0.50 which leads to 12 points per $1 rake, not 6 points.
    • Jitroceler
      Jitroceler
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.05.2010 Posts: 217
      Oh, now I got it. My fault! :)
    • SoyCD
      SoyCD
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 6,356
      Hi Yoghi,

      Historically HU tables have always suffered from lower VIP point distriubtion due to the phenomnen you described earlier. It was especially strong under dealt rake where 9 or 6 max tables allocated many more points per $ of rake than HU tables. Rooms most likely kept the discrepency since higher winrates at HU tables vs. 6/9 max tables made the issue of rake and rakeback less important. With most HU players having good winnings without RB it was never widely made an issue.

      The difference between SNG HU and Cash game HU point distribution is an extension of not addressing the above discrepency. The main source of site activity is usually 6 max tables. As such a site looking to match VIP points given in SNGs to VIP points given in cashgames would use SH or FR tables as a benchmark. As HU tables have an artificially lower rate of VIP point allocation, these would be "under performing" while HU SNG tables wouldn't be (due to fees simply being fees).

      With iPoker moving to weighted contributed, the skew between HU & 6 max should disappear in point distribution (now all cash game tables should allocate points/$ rake equally). If iPoker adjust their VIP point distribution in line with the WC change (which I do not know) - then this should in theory also bridge the gap between HU SNG & cashgame points per $ rake.

      Hope that made sense :)

      Best regards
      Johannes
    • Yoghi
      Yoghi
      Black
      Joined: 10.09.2007 Posts: 14,387
      Thanks, it all makes sense I was just wondering if there was a reason behind it :)

      I remember that FTP used to have the same system, and when they changed to weighted contributed they also changed the points system so you got a fair amount of points for HU. Would be nice if iPoker does the same, is there any way of finding out?
    • circoflax
      circoflax
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.02.2010 Posts: 413
      Does anybody actually play cash at WH, 6max or FR? I plan to make a deposit here and I would like to know what is the ratio player points / rake paid for these kind of games.

      For example, I currently play at Ongame, and the ratio is aprox 3. That is if I pay 100$ in rake in one session, I get ~300 points in my account. Beware that there may be differences between sessions, the best thing is to calculate an average of 4-5 sessions.

      Thank you.
    • DtotheC
      DtotheC
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.11.2010 Posts: 259
      Originally posted by circoflax
      Does anybody actually play cash at WH, 6max or FR? I plan to make a deposit here and I would like to know what is the ratio player points / rake paid for these kind of games.

      For example, I currently play at Ongame, and the ratio is aprox 3. That is if I pay 100$ in rake in one session, I get ~300 points in my account. Beware that there may be differences between sessions, the best thing is to calculate an average of 4-5 sessions.

      Thank you.
      The ratio isnt fixed, it depends on table size and limits. As a general rule, you can use 20 points per $1 rake as an estimate. It is only an estimate though!

      Depending on your usual volume, I would either recommend you try WH or Titan. Titan has a better FDB and rakeback for lower volumes, whereas the WH VIP system is better for high volume players.

      Hope that helps,

      DC
    • circoflax
      circoflax
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.02.2010 Posts: 413
      Originally posted by DtotheC

      The ratio isnt fixed, it depends on table size and limits. As a general rule, you can use 20 points per $1 rake as an estimate. It is only an estimate though!

      Depending on your usual volume, I would either recommend you try WH or Titan. Titan has a better FDB and rakeback for lower volumes, whereas the WH VIP system is better for high volume players.


      I play NL50 FR 90% of the time and 6-max the rest of 10%. I may give a shot at NL100, but from my past experiences I'm not good enough for now to beat NL100, while NL50 gave me a constant profit until now for several hundreds of thousands hands.

      About the ratio, at least at Ongame and the types of games that I play, it was pretty constant arround that 3 value. I play something like 50k hands a month so it can't be a coincidence.

      I have also noticed that WH and Titan have different point allocations for dollars raked, a little higher for WH. Shouldn't this be the same given the fact that were are talking about the same tables, all part of iPoker?

      By my calculations, the VIP cashback is very close at the two sites, if you multiply by the point boosters at WH.
    • DtotheC
      DtotheC
      Headadmin
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      Joined: 23.11.2010 Posts: 259
      Yep the VIP systems are quite similar in terms of actual ROI.

      WH tends to be more rewarding for players who stay for a long time (such as having an automatic upgrade of your VIP level if you maintain it for 3 months).

      Titan starts higher but reaches it's maximum rb% sooner.

      In regards to the points allocation being the same; it isnt. Some networks have the same VIP systems across all rooms, but with iPoker, the VIP systems are all different. Therefore you cannot compare Point per $1 rake on Titan to Points per $1 Rake on WH, since the calculations are different.

      Personally I recommend Titan, since I think you will get the most rakeback from there and obv the software and player pool is the same as WH.
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