Identical stacks bubble BU push, Nash Equilibrium

    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      According to holdemresources.net Nash calculator, with the blinds being 150/300 in a 10max SNG with 4 players with identical stacksizes left (3750c each), BU's Nash push range is 33.2% and the SB can call BU push with 2.6% of his range and the BB with 5.4%.

      However, when I enter this same situation in SNG wizard and assign Nash calling ranges to SB and BB, SNG Wizard tells me that BU is supposed to push ATC. This I don't understand. Am I overlooking something? I thought that against someone who calls according to Nash calling ranges there is no better way to play than pushing according to Nash push ranges. Yet SNG Wizard tells quite another story.

      Edge = 0, of course.
  • 7 replies
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      I gave the button 72o, and set the ranges to 2.8, 0.8, 5.5, 100, 9.8. Then SNG Wizard says pushing is wrong by 0.33% of the prize pool.

      Before I adjusted the ranges for the blinds after the hero folds, SNG Wizard said it was a push. In the Nash equilibrium, the blinds collide about 10% of the time. With SNG Wizard's strange default ranges, the blinds collide about 3% of the time, so folding doesn't look as good if you do not adjust the blind's ranges after you fold.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      I'm sorry, I didn't quite understand.

      I did not use the default ranges, I gave the SB 2.6% and BB 5.4% calling ranges, which are Nash Equilibrium ranges.
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      There are 5 ranges to set, not 2. Did you adjust the overcall range for the BB after the SB calls? Did you set the pushing range for the SB after the hero folds? Did you set the BB's calling range after the hero folds and the SB pushes?
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      You are right! I forgot to assign the overcall range.
      But why do I have to assign ranges for situations when I fold?
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      The decision to push or not compares the value of pushing with the value of folding. The ranges of the blinds after you fold affects the value of pushing. If they will collide often, then the value of folding goes up, so you need pushing to be very good in comparison. If the blinds will not collide often, then you can push more aggressively.
    • Avatars91
      Avatars91
      Bronze
      Joined: 18.12.2009 Posts: 2,689
      I did as you told and you are right.

      A minor problem appeared however, as SNG Wizard suggests BU to push 39.4% instead of Nash calculator's 33.2% after adjusting all the ranges (K5+ instead of K9+ being the most extreme difference), but as you might recall from my previous thread, I suppose you have already responded to this issue.

      Anyway, does this mean that whenever I analyse a situation in SNG Wizard I always have to adjust my opponent's ranges, should I fold? If this is true it changes A LOT in my analyses. This is an incredible discovery for me. I really think this is something that should be mentioned in an article or a video, if it has not been done until now.

      I can't express my gratitude to you in words, pzhon. You truly are a master.
    • pzhon
      pzhon
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.06.2010 Posts: 1,151
      You should look at the ranges after you fold, but you don't have to be as careful about those as you do about the ranges when you are in the hand. Also, collisions between your opponents are particularly important on the bubble, and less important when you are farther from the bubble.