Playing multiple calling stations on SH tables

    • Marivs
      Marivs
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.08.2007 Posts: 148
      So i switched to short handed (Partypoker NL25 SH) a week or so ago and first couple of days were great. I played practicaly by the book (BSS) and things were going well with tight aggresive play with almost no limping, and if I raised with my AK AQ KJ... I was left with 1 vilain atmost so it wasn't so hard.
      But the things I'm coping with for the last couple of days are just out of this world... This is a scenario I've been through over and over again - I'm in late position, let's say on the button and with AK, there are atleast 2 limpers before me, I raise 6xBB, I get called by the SB, BB and the two original limpers. The flop ofcourse rarrely hits me and I'm left with nothing but a fold when they start betting. I was actually forced to either just limp in or just fold AK, AQ, AJ, and pocket pairs >TT when I was playing those people. I mean variance is one thing, when you don't get any hands or the flop doesn't hit you for a 1000 hands but not being able to get some money back with cbets and second barreling is just frustrating and if you add a couple of bad beats to the equasion you can imagine how low my selfconfidence is and how hard it is not to go on tilt when you fold your 7th AK of the day after you reraised it PF and got called by 3-5 ppl and you get a shitty board.

      So...what is the point of my whining: I want to know how you play with them - Do you become super tight, super loose, start limping instead of raising your potentially strong hands and than play pasive if you don't have the nuts on the flop?

      The thing I would like to see the most is some new videos or maybe even a public coaching (by hasenbraten for instance who already did some of those) on these limits and against multiple calling stations with VP$IP > 40 because these are the most +EV players to play against.
      I know these are practicaly microlimits but all of the new members must get trough them and considering that this is the lowest limit on party where you can play short handed you have to retourn to fullring on NL10 if you loose to much of your bankroll (I'm far from that but if the beats from last 2 days continue I'll be broke in a week).
  • 11 replies
    • swissmoumout
      swissmoumout
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.02.2007 Posts: 3,385
      just don't bluff against calling stations. play you big hands fast, and don't worry about not c-betting as much. Tables with several calling stations are the nuts - you might need to tighten up a little, but you get so much value on your big hands it doesn't matter
    • Kruppe
      Kruppe
      Black
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 2,144
      you will hit with AK about one third of the time, right? and when you hit something with 3 calling stations in the pot that will easily make up for the times when you missed the flop.
    • Marivs
      Marivs
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.08.2007 Posts: 148
      how can I not TILT when ppl do this to me:



      Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)   
      Position:
      Stack
      BB:
      $36.18
      Hero:
      $26.74
      BU:
      $24.65

      0.10/0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A:diamond: , A:spade: . CO posts a blind of $0.25.
      Hero raises to $1.25, 2 folds, BU calls $1.25, SB folds, BB calls $1.00.

      Flop: ($4.10) 4:heart: , 7:diamond: , 8:heart: (3 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $3.20, BU folds, BB calls $3.20.

      Turn: ($10.50) 2:club: (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero bets $9, BB calls $9.00.

      River: ($28.50) T:heart: (2 players)
      BB bets $22.73 (All-In), Hero raises to $13.29 (All-In).

      Final Pot: $64.52

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      BB shows [ 7h, 2h ] a flush, Ten high
      Hero shows [ Ad, As ] a pair of Aces
      BB wins $9.44 USD with a flush, Ten high.
      BB wins $51.83 USD with a flush, Ten high.
    • Wildknight
      Wildknight
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2008 Posts: 77
      what do you mean ppl do this to you? because he called with 2 7? people do that you have nothing to do aginst it... that was just a sick beat because i belive you have about 85% equity to win the hand aginst 2 7s with aces.... on the flop he had a really strong hand... a pair and a flush draw... turn made him two pair and he drew out... that'll happen... but be glad people call you with 2 7... that's like free 1.25% most of the times and if he hits his 7 on a 7 high board you might get paid off.... another thing about that hand... that's a really scary board for aces... suited and connected so i think maybe it would have been a little conservative thing to do... but i think i might check behind in positon, or at least bet a little less than what you bet because there was a great chance that you were beat on the flop/turn (as it turned out you were) 2 was kinda blank although it made him to pair... anyway, i hate it too ppl call me with 2 5 and draw out... ppl go all in with 2 5 i call with kings and gets drawn out on.... i think the hand i lost the most aginst is 2 5... but what can you do about it.... get your money in when the best hand and hope it holds :D

      P.S. river (10h) was about the most dangerous card for you if you had him beat on the turn... makes a straight, makes a flush... even tho you're getting great pot odds... there's nothing there you can beat besides a bluff.... dunno if i would've called, but then again i think that's exactly the reason i wouldn't bet that much on the turn... so if a scary card falls and he moves in i wouldn't be committed.

      Best regards,

      Wildknight.
    • Wildknight
      Wildknight
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2008 Posts: 77
      about the not raising with AK ... agree with krupee... you should bet when there are limpers in front of you... you have a hand that is the best hand in most of the cases and you have position.... about pairs < 10 ... when so many people limp and you know that if you'll bet they'll call, i prefer limping also, and if i hit my set on a safe board... play it really fast and most chances you'll double up aginst some calling station with TPTK or even less.... anyhow... situational game requires careful examination of each situation....
    • Marivs
      Marivs
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.08.2007 Posts: 148
      Thank you for your reply Wildknight I really appreciate it. When I posted that hand yesterday I was a little on tilt because the whole session was just crazy. In ~2000 hands I was dealt AA 14 times and I lost 16bb, AK was dealt to me 32 times and I lost 44bb and KK were dealt 11 times and I lost 80bb and ti would probably cost me even more if I hadn't folded them once when a super tight player 3-bet I re-raised and then he showed and we were both deep stacked (~200bb). He could be holding QQ or something but I had enough bad beats for one day so I rather folded.
    • Wildknight
      Wildknight
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2008 Posts: 77
      if you're loosing more than you are winning with aces kings and AK, you should make a new evaluation of your game, re read strategy articles, and watch vids.. on the long term Aces and kings should be the hands you won the most with or at least top 5 at your hands list. about the time you folded kings.... personally... i can't make those laydowns yet, can't fold kings preflop and iv'e had aces vs kings so many times that's unbeliaveable... but since he was really tight, and because you were both deep stacked... i think a player won't go all in with queens or AK if he can lose 200BB.... i think that was a great fold, amazing one imo.
    • Marivs
      Marivs
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.08.2007 Posts: 148
      I intend do have a pause and go trough all the silver and gold articles again yes but the urge to play is really strong so I don't know If will be able to pull it of :D

      I made an even more amazing fold that day... I folded a full house :D
      I had TT on the BB, I bet and only SB who was a calling station called other limpers folded. Flop came T7x so he checks I bet 2/3 of pot he calls. The turn was a 7, he checks I bet ~potsize he calls and than another 7 fell on the river and he just shoved... I was almost timed out when I clicked fold. And than he showed his hand - A7o
      This was the happiest I ever was because of a fold :D
    • arjun2001
      arjun2001
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.03.2008 Posts: 352
      wow great fold. I don't know if you really did fold, but if you did then it was a very solid lay down. I won't lay it down even if the guy tells me he has the 7. :D
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Silver
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      well it's the 2nd nuts :P . if he's doing this with AA, KK, QQ some of the time as well, then i will call.. cause it's so much more likely they have these than 7x
    • Marivs
      Marivs
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.08.2007 Posts: 148
      It was my only fold of that kind so far and luckilly a good one :)
      My experience with theese calling stations is that they are pasive and just (check) call every bet if they hit a pair or sometimes two pair on the board but when they hit the nutz they usually bet big and I mean big! Even if there are just two and a half big blinds in the pot and it gets checked 'till the river and then they get their back door flush/straight or something they very often go all-in so the original pot size doesn't play a significant role for them.
      That's how I lost quite a lot of money, because I didn't believe them and I thought my TPTK or something was good but I learned my lesson :D