PokerStrategy.com CEO Dominik 'Korn' Kofert has written about what online poker needs to do in the future to sustain itself. This follows his series on the value of winning players and why poker rooms should not discriminate against them.
You can find Dominik's blogs here:
Don't Discriminate Against Winning Players
The Secret Value of Winning Players
Let us know what you think of Korn's blogs in this thread.
There's a reason PokerStars is the biggest poker room in the world, don you think? 
Originally posted by EmanuelC16
There's a reason PokerStars is the biggest poker room in the world, don you think?(x) Best software
(x) Best Suport
(x) Best Adv
( ) Best service for winning player <---- no corelation
Originally posted by patszerdonk
Originally posted by EmanuelC16
There's a reason PokerStars is the biggest poker room in the world, don you think?(x) Best software
(x) Best Suport
(x) Best Adv
( ) Best service for winning player <---- no corelationYou either suck or have big leaks if you can't win on pokerstars. I've won over $2500 by just playing NL25 there.
Originally posted by EmanuelC16
Huh?! You're saying that the bonuses for grinders have nothing to do with it?Stars rakeback = nuts
I think this thread is heading in a wrong direction. I completely agree with what is mentioned in the article and i am really happy that you take action against this pokerstrategy. Because i feel like a criminal sometimes when pokersites treat me like a criminal for raking 3000€ /month. I played on two sites already where i nearly got banned for winning too much... !!! So i had to withdraw and quit before they banned me from their site. How sick is that?
I think the staff at PokerStrat would have the inside track regarding what the bosses at poker rooms think, it just seems inconcievable to me that they would actually sit in a meeting and say to each other, "okay, winning players are bad".
Maybe they feel that the bonuses that successful grinders can whip through in a matter of days, balances out the change in rake structure. Bonuses and stuff entice rec players, but rec players probably lose money overall trying to clear them (guilty as charged!) whereas serious grinders blow through them like a hot knife through butter.
But I honestly don't see most rec players caring too much about the finer points of rake structure so i dont see how this change will seriously keep rec players playing longer.
Part of the problem may be that "growth" may be the driving force behind discussions of profitability instead of consistent profitability (the downfall of many a company), but then again fierce competition makes "growth" almost necessary for a company's survival.
And that Everleaf policy is just ridiculous. I can't understand the thinking at all...
Originally posted by EmanuelC16
Huh?! You're saying that the bonuses for grinders have nothing to do with it?
Grinders are good for them in the past. But with today and future atmosphere of online poker, I doubt they'll keep the grinders happy with them.
other platforms have good bonuses too. such as carbonpoker on mergenetwork. the rakeback and players there are lovely
I believe the policy of some sites is like trying to salvage the last remaining bits of a dying industry. The players are getting increasingly better (at HE, at least), the fish are losing money faster and therefor the sites are doing all these retarded stunts to protect them for just a while longer.
In my opinion, this is a bad attitude, because its premise is: "the recreational player pool is a stable variable an it will eventually dry out", like if there are like 5000 recreational players on that site and they have like 0.5 million usd, every bankroll busted makes it 5000-x and 0.5mln - x.
Instead, the recreational player pool should be viewed like a renewable source. What I see lacking is advertisement and progress in the sites themselves.
The discussion started with pokerstars, I guess nobody doubts that pokerstars have made their work with: advertisement, spread of poker, software etc.
I do believe, that grinders did have some impact on pokerstars success, but the main reasons are different.
The sites I see, doing stupid stuff, like anonymous tables(microgaming), limiting multitabling (888), AUTOFOLD PREFLOP (srsly, wtf, microgaming), complaining about pokerstars success (the ceo of party, if I'm not mistaken). Are doing next to nothing, compared to pokerstars (except partypoker, which, imo, has other issues). And, yes, it is true, that pokerstars are a lot bigger and have more resources, but some simple changes (sometimes in the attitude only), can make the difference.
While party poker is complaining about stars' success, they are doing nothing to improve their software, lobby and game availability, even losing to iPoker (the most tilty place I've ever played in) in traffic.
imo, 888 pokers software has gone worse (maybe this is one of the reasons, why they limited their playable table count), they have bad support (with the exception of cashier support, but they are only helping with deposits and bonuses, while some issues, that are solved by email might take a very long time).
microgaming software, lobby layout and game structures have gone for the worst (correlates with their traffic drop in the recent year(s) ).
ah, to put this all in short: I fully agree with patszerdonk: advertisement (to attract recreational players to poker AND your site), software (to keep them there), support ( to keep them there even when problems arise), are the main tools in making your site better.
Instead, poker operators are acting like the recreational players, new players, etc. are no longer available, therefore the industry is dying and they must keep the recreational players protected for as long as they can, to salvage the last pennies in rake.
best support?
wait until you have an issue with them
they will treat you like they just want to escape your request/problem and move on to the next request/problem
guess what they will act on the next request/problem
usual response : we're hugging tight the 'NO' word and his combos and we move on to the next sucker
Originally posted by ragney
Originally posted by patszerdonk
Originally posted by EmanuelC16
There's a reason PokerStars is the biggest poker room in the world, don you think?(x) Best software
(x) Best Suport
(x) Best Adv
( ) Best service for winning player <---- no corelationYou either suck or have big leaks if you can't win on pokerstars. I've won over $2500 by just playing NL25 there.
YH u r the poker god!! And so many other players make money too. No need to show off. Don't dishearten or insult other players with such statements. Everybody is entitled to their own views on the topic. So shut up if u don't have anything to post on the topic.
Originally posted by shehanshah
Everybody is entitled to their own views. So shut up.
I'm not trying to be rude, but I did have to laugh at that.
Originally posted by shehanshah
Originally posted by ragney
Originally posted by patszerdonk
Originally posted by EmanuelC16
There's a reason PokerStars is the biggest poker room in the world, don you think?(x) Best software
(x) Best Suport
(x) Best Adv
( ) Best service for winning player <---- no corelationYou either suck or have big leaks if you can't win on pokerstars. I've won over $2500 by just playing NL25 there.
YH u r the poker god!! And so many other players make money too. No need to show off. Don't dishearten or insult other players with such statements. Everybody is entitled to their own views. So shut up.
Ahhh the irony.
Are they making the software advantageous to recreational players?
And By recreational player u mean donks?
Originally posted by cshintov
Are they making the software advantageous to recreational players?
And By recreational player u mean donks?
yes.
-support many languages, currency, time zone, and many others localization
-i can find my fave stars pro easily. i don't remember how to do that, but i can list all of the pro who is playing at the table. that's nice because as a recreational player i love to watch them playing
-i can replay sunday million final table and see how they did. i found out that i can play like them. they're only a bunch of luck players. they shove J7o just like me! ♦
-home game feature
-etc. too many to mention
Pokerrooms are factory that produces product called rake. In order to do that they hire workers (grinder) to process raw materials (fish).
Raw materials used to be easy to obtain and pokerrooms give incentives for working overtime. The situation is changing especially after BF because more and more difficult to obtain raw materials due to DOJ' embargo. How to solve this problem? Of course you have to try to find new raw materials. But if you can't then you forced to cut your worker salary. Of course your workers wouldn't happy with it especially the competent ones that used to work hard for you. But in order to maintain the factory you have to do it.
Originally posted by patszerdonk
Pokerrooms are factory that produces product called rake. In order to do that they hire workers (grinder) to process raw materials (fish).Raw materials used to be easy to obtain and pokerrooms give incentives for working overtime. The situation is changing especially after BF because more and more difficult to obtain raw materials due to DOJ' embargo. How to solve this problem? Of course you have to try to find new raw materials. But if you can't then you forced to cut your worker salary. Of course your workers wouldn't happy with it especially the competent ones that used to work hard for you. But in order to maintain the factory you have to do it.
i think this is actually a pretty well written metaphor tbh. however, they are still unquestionably driving massive profits even before the changes. Bottom line of any corporation, though, is profit above all else, and this is just another example of that. losing big profit from the american market = recoup losses in other areas.
Originally posted by patszerdonk
Pokerrooms are factory that produces product called rake. In order to do that they hire workers (grinder) to process raw materials (fish).Raw materials used to be easy to obtain and pokerrooms give incentives for working overtime. The situation is changing especially after BF because more and more difficult to obtain raw materials due to DOJ' embargo. How to solve this problem? Of course you have to try to find new raw materials. But if you can't then you forced to cut your worker salary. Of course your workers wouldn't happy with it especially the competent ones that used to work hard for you. But in order to maintain the factory you have to do it.
Yes nicely put, BF was the ultimate shitty shit for grinders!! That's exactly hw i look at it as well. Suddenly players lose bankrolls at fulltilt and most of fulltilt's customers came to pokerstars, party and other sites. The poker rooms know that people who play for a living just will continue to play poker no matter which room it is, so they take advantage of it. And instead of improving their software, the rooms have severely degraded their software. No matter hw many good spots u put urself in, one sees( atleast I have) severe degradation in their ROI or simply put as $$$$/month. And I know some people just make fun or mock others and say they have made X amount at X stakes or in Z amount of time, disregarding the real facts as if nobody else is working on their game except them. I am also very happy that atleast somebody influential like Dominic 'KORN' Kofert is addressing issues like this instead of following the rat race, before the whole thing becomes a black hole and destroys player's interest in the game.
