Just how swingy are turbos vs non turbo?

    • esuohdla
      esuohdla
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.05.2011 Posts: 411
      Recently I have been playing a lot of 45/90 man MT-SnGs on stars, and im finding some trouble with the turbo variants.

      I play the same game in both variants, shove the same cards with the same stack sizes against similar or the same opponents, competition seems much the same, if not easier than the non turbos.

      In theory I should be doing better at the turbos, particularly as my postflop play is likely the weakest part of my game, and turbos dont have as much of that, however after similar samples (granted, 500 games of each isnt much, but I can probably grab some data from it) im doing much worse when playing turbos.

      Is the variance of the turbo format a lot more than reg speed or am I just missing something here?

      EDIT: While im here, is it correct to post MT-SnG questions in here or the MTT forum?
  • 23 replies
    • Anssi
      Anssi
      Black
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 2,173
      In theory variance is identical in turbos to normals. Only things that matter size of swings are ROI and payout structure. Of course in practice people tend to have smaller roi in turbos so the swings are also more brutal.
    • esuohdla
      esuohdla
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.05.2011 Posts: 411
      Actually that payout structure comment made me realize ive been playing many more turbo 90s than reg speed 90s, and reg speed 45s than turbo 45s, guess its likely a mix of that and not having a large sample size.

      Thanks :)
    • Targetme
      Targetme
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      Joined: 04.05.2009 Posts: 1,888
      Turbos have less variance and its not even close.

      Why? you can play more in less time its that simple.
    • Jitroceler
      Jitroceler
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      Joined: 28.05.2010 Posts: 217
      Originally posted by Targetme
      Turbos have less variance and its not even close.

      Why? you can play more in less time its that simple.
      I don´t think that this means less variance.
    • Heave112
      Heave112
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      Joined: 27.03.2009 Posts: 456
      Targetme, your assumption is incorrect Turbos are more swingy due to the amount of games you can play per hour compared to the normal variants of the game. So don't talk when you don't know man, stick to NL2.
    • Justin37
      Justin37
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      Joined: 25.07.2009 Posts: 445
      i think turbo is always swingy due to the fact the game blind faster than the regular speed.

      I play lot of micro SNG turbo n non turbo, n i have more good winning n less swingy regular than the turbo game. When the blind become 100/200, people just go all in with any "pretty hand".
    • purplefizz
      purplefizz
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      Joined: 12.03.2008 Posts: 4,508
      hey guys,

      moved this to the MTT Forum :)

      cheers,
      wendy
    • Targetme
      Targetme
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      Joined: 04.05.2009 Posts: 1,888
      Originally posted by Heave112
      Targetme, your assumption is incorrect Turbos are more swingy due to the amount of games you can play per hour compared to the normal variants of the game. So don't talk when you don't know man, stick to NL2.
      roflmao i been a pro for two years buddy first time I ever been dissed on this site too so ill go easy on you.

      Im not talking pure swings more hourly and session roi. Your hourly and roi will be closer to your average which is most important unless your a busto fish not properly rolled
    • Asaban
      Asaban
      Moderator
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      Joined: 22.09.2006 Posts: 8,242
      Might be a good idea for all of you to calm down a bit :)

      From what I experienced the variance in turbo's (talking about variance at the same samplesize) is much higher then it is in non turbo's. I think the reason is, that the competition in turbo's is much higher then it is in non turbo's on average. People have to make less decisions postflop and tend to make less mistakes overall as a result. Preflop play is much easier to learn and execute properly. Furthermore you have to win more allins and see more showdowns then you would have to win and see in non turbo's. As a result the variance rises.

      Playing MTSNG Turbo's and Non-Turbo's of the same buyin you should expect to get a better ROI on the non turbo's since there are way less regulars. At the same time your hourly might still be lower since you can play less tournaments per hour on average.

      Regards,
      Asaban
    • Targetme
      Targetme
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      Joined: 04.05.2009 Posts: 1,888
      Talking strictly mtt its just so hard to get in the volumn to own variance and make the money worth it without turbos thats kinda what im getting at.
    • AltarEgo
      AltarEgo
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      Joined: 04.04.2012 Posts: 36
      Speaking from my own experience

      I've played more reg SNG's than turbo's and the turbo's are definitely more swingy, that's not to say the profitability is different over an extended period of time.

      In a regular MTT, I'd say more skilled players will win more money - because being blinded down and running out of time is as much a factor as the opponents and it happens quickly.

      You have to get good hands in Turbo's more than Regular in order to make the money.
    • grindtolive
      grindtolive
      Global
      Joined: 12.03.2012 Posts: 468
      You can take a look in my blog to see how swingy turbo are.I dont believe the variance is the same.In normals you play many more hands so your edge is bigger aka swings are tiny.In turbos you reach push/fold fast so your edge is smaller aka swings are bigger

      I have 90bis difference in 9 man turbos.Thats why i ll never play 45/90/180s.If i can have 90bis ev diffrence then it can only be depressing to think about the variance in bigger formats
    • grindtolive
      grindtolive
      Global
      Joined: 12.03.2012 Posts: 468
      Right now i have 110 bis downswing in 9 man turbo stts in pokerstars.Joke???Stop playing poker


    • inlovewithamsterdam
      inlovewithamsterdam
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      Joined: 08.07.2009 Posts: 666
      When you play a break-even game in turbos that's a recipe for disaster. Swings are much bigger then.
    • grindtolive
      grindtolive
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      Joined: 12.03.2012 Posts: 468
      Originally posted by inlovewithamsterdam
      When you play a break-even game in turbos that's a recipe for disaster. Swings are much bigger then.
      why to play breakeven?This is lame for low/mid stakes
    • daun666
      daun666
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      Joined: 12.05.2010 Posts: 540
      Originally posted by Anssi
      people tend to have smaller roi in turbos so the swings are also more brutal.
      This.
    • inlovewithamsterdam
      inlovewithamsterdam
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      Joined: 08.07.2009 Posts: 666
      Originally posted by grindtolive
      Originally posted by inlovewithamsterdam
      When you play a break-even game in turbos that's a recipe for disaster. Swings are much bigger then.
      why to play breakeven?This is lame for low/mid stakes
      what are you trying to say?

      What I meant is you're likely to be playing a breakeven game. Given how much energy you spend whining about your coolers you probably have none left for improvement.
    • AssadKamran91
      AssadKamran91
      Black
      Joined: 01.02.2009 Posts: 40
      so many straight out stupid retarded statements itt.

      1. turbos gonna have a higher variance no matter what. thats due to the simple fckin fact that the blinds get up faster so you need to take more high variance plays. also the rake is pretty high, compared to running time, but the first really is the only big reason.

      2. how big the variance and swings are depends so much on the person playing. no one is going to have the same swings, roi etc cause everyone plays different! even though the difference in the opening range and 3b range is exact same for 2 people there's allways something thats different, like mindset control.

      3. people saying roi is often bigger for regs in reg speed vs turbo are correct, but they really don't understand why. maybe it's because most regs focus on reg speed games and started in that? maybe they don't change their game enough, cause the difference in reg speed/turbo is HUGE. most regs r lazy crybebies who want every game and site to adapt to them rather than going out there and try to crush and learn where the moneys at!
    • grindtolive
      grindtolive
      Global
      Joined: 12.03.2012 Posts: 468
      Originally posted by inlovewithamsterdam
      Originally posted by grindtolive
      Originally posted by inlovewithamsterdam
      When you play a break-even game in turbos that's a recipe for disaster. Swings are much bigger then.
      why to play breakeven?This is lame for low/mid stakes
      what are you trying to say?

      What I meant is you're likely to be playing a breakeven game. Given how much energy you spend whining about your coolers you probably have none left for improvement.
      Yeap thats why i have 4.2% ev roi while i run bad.Because i am breakeven player.Another small brainer bitch
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