[NL2-NL10] QKo NL5 Zoom fr

    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      PokerStars - $0.05 NL ZOOM - Holdem - 9 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      BTN: $1.70
      SB: $3.24
      BB: $2.50
      Hero (UTG): $6.99
      UTG+1: $16.92
      MP: $12.25
      MP+1: $6.28
      LP: $10.41
      CO: $6.95

      SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

      Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has Q:heart: K:club:

      Hero raises to $0.30, fold, fold, fold, LP calls $0.30, fold, fold, fold, fold

      Flop: ($0.67, 2 players) A:diamond: T:heart: 4:club:
      Hero bets $0.48, LP calls $0.48

      Turn: ($1.63, 2 players) J:diamond:
      Hero bets $1.17, LP raises to $9.63 and is all-in, Hero calls $5.04 and is all-in

      River: ($14.05, 2 players) 7:club:

      Hero shows Q:heart: K:club: (Straight, Ace High) (Pre 41%, Flop 13%, Turn 91%)
      LP shows J:club: A:spade: (Two Pair, Aces and Jacks) (Pre 59%, Flop 87%, Turn 9%)
      Hero wins $13.47
  • 10 replies
    • EnterG
      EnterG
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.01.2010 Posts: 632
      I wonder why do you post a hand like this.Do you have a problem here ?
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      well, if you dont see the results, there is actually some analysing that can be done on the preflop, flop and turn.

      I was wondering if anyone else is finding the zoom tables as nitty as i? I have resorted to raising a really wide range as a result of this. Its gotten me into some cool spots like some cbet situations, like the one here.

      Flop: Is the cbet big enough? or could it be more or less?

      Turn: Could the bet be pot size? or is 75% fine against his range? Too big? there is a flush draw and other made hands availible. I think going even ~$1.47 might even be a reasonable bet on the turn.

      the rest is obviously not anything to talk about.
    • Termi8r
      Termi8r
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.02.2008 Posts: 408
      ship it! nice hand.

      Why bet 6bb pre with KQ though, you see them shipping $10 into a $2 pot with two pears...no need just keep it to 3-4bb pre. People getting deep stacked on these zoom tables get it in so bad! Its awesome! :s_cool:
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      i think bet sizings as played are fine.
      for all practical purposes 1.47 on turn is like betting pot, just worse as value line because it is less money and doesn't even look bluffy :D

      now let's try to understand his reasoning:
      - you are playing zoom and double barrel A high flop, so it's totally 100% that you have AK
      - huge overbet ship it for value, because no one ever folds AK when it hits!
      ...oops.

      [edit: i just noticed preflop. 6BB is huge, specially if you want to open wide... when playing with wide range i usually open like 3.5 from UTG, 3 from MP-CO and 2.5 from BU-SB :D also it's zoom! people just want to be quickfolding anyway so no need to raise big for more fold equity]
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      Originally posted by Tomaloc
      i think bet sizings as played are fine.
      for all practical purposes 1.47 on turn is like betting pot, just worse as value line because it is less money and doesn't even look bluffy :D

      now let's try to understand his reasoning:
      - you are playing zoom and double barrel A high flop, so it's totally 100% that you have AK
      - huge overbet ship it for value, because no one ever folds AK when it hits!
      ...oops.

      [edit: i just noticed preflop. 6BB is huge, specially if you want to open wide... when playing with wide range i usually open like 3.5 from UTG, 3 from MP-CO and 2.5 from BU-SB :D also it's zoom! people just want to be quickfolding anyway so no need to raise big for more fold equity]
      it is funny you say 6bb is huge. because it has been working for me and i have been testing this over a small sample size, but its been working. it makes players overcommit to the pot when you have a good hand. until you try this strategy, i suggest not knocking it :) i even get more action on KK and AA hands, and rarely get 3bet with such a huge open, so i am the one in control of the pot more often then not. I get to see the flop, and cbet more often. I would rather just steal blinds when i open with KQ, this is the reason im opening so loose and big, is because they just fold so often that im finding it profitable. I open from MP1-3 for 5x and CO for 4x, BU from 2.5-4x depending on SS and SB 2.5-3x depending on SS.

      The 6BB open is usually just to steal the blinds, and the 5x open is usually just to steal the blinds....heck...90% of my preflop raises are JUST TO STEAL THE BLINDS :) this is what your supposed to play like when everyone is a NIT. I dont actually want action when i open with kq in UTG...and i dont often get it...not even once in 6 times. making that a profitable steal imo

      magic
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      well, i also got frequent steals on rush with raising smaller :D i mean, people are so nitty and usually quickfolding before they even see your raise anyway. and do you really want them to overcommit when you hit just a top pair with your KQ?
      if they want to "adapt" and call more you can usually outplay them postflop (and damn, i suck but even i could say this)

      of course adapt slightly to table stats but anyway
      now i'll back it up with some math :f_eek: (i'll add some quick explanation to our more casual readers)

      stealingEV = foldProbability*blindsWon - callProbability*blindsLost
      fP*bW = cP*bL (EV = 0 to calculate the folding probability needed to break even)
      fP = cP*bL/bW
      fP = (1-fP)*bL/bW (call probability is just 100% minus the times they fold)

      blindstealing with 6BB:
      fP = (1-fP)*6/1.5
      fP = (1-fP)*4
      fP+4*fP = 4
      fP = 0,8 (has to work more than 80% of the time to be profitable, not considering postflop)

      blindstealing with 3.5xBB:
      fP = (1-fP)*3.5/1.5
      3*fP = (1-fP)*7
      3*fP+7*fP = 7
      fP = 0,7 (has to work more than 70% of the time to be profitable, not considering postflop)

      so, well, we're already raising from UTG. does investing a whole 2.5BB more increase our fold equity that much? we can argue over whether the fold equity increases by 10% :f_biggrin: and about postflop play, cbet profit, etc of course...
      but i guess it doesn't really matter. may be a matter of style, if it works just go on with it :D

      ...
      just talking about blind stealing in rush games get me thrilled already. i can't wait to move my roll to stars :D
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello ilovemagic,

      Preflop: Wouldn't even advice to open KQo from UTG cause of ZOOM poker. The ranges there which you get called from and played will be very strong and you rarely will be very strong with any of those pairs and will be playing OOP.

      As played
      Postflop: $0,40 should be even enough with the CB, it practically gains the same fold equity. But otherwise not much to comment.

      Best Regards.
    • kiromanAAKK
      kiromanAAKK
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.10.2009 Posts: 4,022
      comment this hand before see the results and other peoples comments as well, I don't understand what is the doubt on the river, ship there ofc, I don't see what else to do ...

      while, I will think 2 time before open such hand from that position on the zoom tables of Pokerstars ... after, well, Im a fish btw and now Im going to see what I got right and what wrong :D
    • mineriva
      mineriva
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.04.2008 Posts: 913
      Only comment is

      very unlucky

      that you did not have more chips.
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      haha no kidding right. but really for the record ive brought my raise sizes down to 4.5x utg, 4&3.5x for mp, and 2.5-3x for co, bu, sb.