[NL2-NL10] JJ vs maniac fish

    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      this was my toughest decision of the day on the turn. i have no clue how to play against this player who was 56/33 thru about 100 hands. he rarely folded to turn and flop bets...he was such a fish, but had been sucking out on everyone at the table with shitty hands even as worse as a 200bb pot with 32o. he had betted 30% of turns in 20 situations. so he was being quite honest on turns, and on rivers he was betting 7/10 situations and had an infinite aggression factor...i was so close to raising the turn and shovein the river, butt afraid he had 2 pair, straight or something bigger then that even.

      PokerStars - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 7 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      CO: $2.29
      BTN: $2.00
      SB: $2.37
      BB: $2.00
      Hero (UTG): $5.86
      UTG+1: $1.94
      MP: $5.85

      SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

      Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has J:diamond: J:heart:

      Hero raises to $0.08, UTG+1 calls $0.08, MP calls $0.08, CO calls $0.08, fold, fold, fold

      Flop: ($0.35, 4 players) T:club: 6:club: 8:heart:
      Hero bets $0.34, fold, MP calls $0.34, fold

      Turn: ($1.03, 2 players) 5:spade:
      Hero checks, MP bets $0.92, Hero calls $0.92

      River: ($2.87, 2 players) T:spade:
      Hero checks, MP bets $4.51 and is all-in, fold

      MP wins $2.77
  • 13 replies
    • inlovewithamsterdam
      inlovewithamsterdam
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2009 Posts: 666
      plenty of missed flush and straight draws on that river, me thinks it was a call! If you think about how wide his range is, he has got a lot of weaker hands in this spot even after sticking around for two streets.

      Best
      Matt
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      also has several made straights, 2pair, Tx hands as well as boats in his range as well.

      EDIT:I think the safer play to fold here, because he will give us lots of action in more dryer board textures and easier flops. also the fact that it being a multiway pot and me not being tight agressive just very possibly couldve factored into his decision to play his hand this way, hoping i had a nutso type starting hand i didnt want to fold like KK AA. I dont want to just hand 3 stacks to a super fish without being more sure of my hand. and more sure of his hand. how my range stacks up to his range and how his stacks up to mine. I think he just thought he got really lucky with a hand that gave him something that beat a Tx trips hand, he was putting me simply on a Tx hand, and thought i would call the shove on the river, given his image.
    • inlovewithamsterdam
      inlovewithamsterdam
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2009 Posts: 666
      Originally posted by ilovemagic
      also has several made straights, 2pair, Tx hands as well as boats in his range as well.
      79 is a cooler, so is 74. You beat all two pair apart from QQ, KK and AA; he does have those three in his range, as well as Tx hands and sets (boats on Riv), but you can't fold vs them as it's a small percentage of the overall rubbish that he will play: 8x, 6x, pocket pairs, two pair that have been killed on the river like 86, 65, plus all the draws, we could go on for ever!

      my two cents

      EDIT: Plus don't you think on the Riv with a strong hand he would bet less to get paid off?
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      i think he was doing that shove on the river with a strong hand, hoping i would pick up on his maniac fish image and just call and lose.
    • inlovewithamsterdam
      inlovewithamsterdam
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2009 Posts: 666
      Originally posted by ilovemagic
      i think he was doing that shove on the river with a strong hand, hoping i would pick up on his maniac fish image and just call and lose.
      I don't think they think on that level.
    • janalissako
      janalissako
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.08.2011 Posts: 224
      First of all i dont really understand the check on the turn, because it looks very weak and u underrepresent ur hand there . its a nice spot for the maniac to bluff and take the pot and secondly you give him the chance to take a free card on this wet board, which is not a good idea. if he reraise the turn already its pretty clear u are beat especially if your idea that he was pretty honest on the turn is right.
      now u made this weak looking play its hard to call him here made a big overbet which gice u ugly pot odds .
      u only beats bluff here that should be clear and he has to bluff here more than 60% to make ur call profitable i think its a fold. i think he could have straights and full house and busted draws his range is pretty wide but i think its a fold here anyways.
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      pretty interesting.
      i feel like raise/shoving on the turn because i think this kind of guy could easily overplay his Tx, and he won't fold a draw to you either... but i so hate to stack off with just a pair, then he flips something stronger and you're left feeling like a moron :f_biggrin: then instaquit session
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      we can easily just get it in with sets or better for 3 stacks deep situations and profit. the rest we can just elect for pot control.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello ilovemagic,

      I'd rather just Bet/Fold the flop, turn & river rather than turn it into bluff-catcher while there are too many bad cards for us which we don't want to see.

      But as played I wouldn't be calling either being so deep, I mean if the guy really wanted to get fold equity why not just Bet like $2 which would most likely have the same fold equity. We are never folding our Tx here. He has to bluff way too much of his range there which I don't see him doing that.

      Best Regards.
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      lol i didn't notice at all that you were 300BB deep even after he shoved river. oops

      then "just wait for a better spot" seems to apply :D
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      ive been thinking about this hand for several days now. I still have no clue what villain had. nor will i ever. But I like to think about the long run. So in this spot I agree with veriz about b/f turn and river. we only bet 50 bb on turn and 75 bb on river. Maniac probably just calls with shit and raises me with nutty hands imo. there is even enough draws out there that he cant be thinking im going to be folding to often if i bet every street, so bluffing the river would be something only a maniac could really do in this spot being so deep. so i lose 200bb with JJ to a maniac if he raises the river..or even if he raises turn i lose out on my 50BB + whatever else i had put in the pot, but i get more calls imo by taking the initiative oop and just betting. with him being ip he might even be more inclined to just call in fear of even me raising the river with the nuts and taking his whole "hard earned" stack.


      am i right?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Correct, those maniacs are very likely to pay with a lot worse.
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      sweetness :)