[NL2-NL10] QJs NL4 3handed - session review 27/06/12

    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      this is against the same guy who ive been beating up pretty good, for about 200 hands now hes down like 2 stacks just at this table alone.

      vpip/pfr/3bet/agg/hands/wts/w$@SD
      villain:
      31/21/7/1.57/192/47/41


      my stats:
      54/43/18/4.38/185/26/50

      i decide to flat his 3bet here because implied odds seem good and im ip with suited broadway. 3 handed this is a good spot to call a 3bet.

      i hit the flop like i wanted, making top pair good kicker. i decide calling his 3/4 bet here is fine, with no draws availible and he would probably vbet his entire range here anyways. he cbets nicely (10/15 or 67%), so raising here isnt good ever imo. i can just fold to a big bet on turn if my hand goes to shit.

      i pick up a nice card on the turn, which gives me TP+gutshot, i decide to call another bet and reevaluate the river. he could have me beat easily now if he has QQ KK or AA or even AQ. i still think hes cabable of the odd bluff.

      He checks the river, i know im good. i just cant decide what the right bet is on that street. opinions? he likes to see showdowns. since he folds here im pretty sure he couldve been bluffing with AJs or even AKo AKs.

      PartyGaming - $0.04 NL - Holdem - 3 players
      Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

      Hero (BTN): $14.93
      SB: $5.84
      BB: $10.44

      SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

      Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has Q:diamond: J:diamond:

      Hero raises to $0.12, SB raises to $0.38, fold, Hero calls $0.26

      Flop: ($0.80, 2 players) Q:spade: 8:heart: 7:club:
      SB bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.60

      Turn: ($2.00, 2 players) T:diamond:
      SB bets $1.20, Hero calls $1.20

      River: ($4.40, 2 players) 9:heart:
      SB checks, Hero bets $1.45, fold

      Hero wins $4.18
  • 7 replies
    • holmeboy
      holmeboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.01.2010 Posts: 1,336
      Disagree with this being a good hand to call 3b. Yes you have position but don't see any weaker Qx or Jx in his 3b range so I see this as a reverse implied odds hand.

      Since we called can't really fold tp. Especially with his high cb. River I'd nearly make it ~$1
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      we arent calling because there would be weaker hands in his 3bet range, we are calling preflop to see if we can flop a nice hand and get paid off. its only 6 more bb to possibly win 100bb from his stack. isnt that good enough odds that we hit our hand often enough?

      i have different expectations of the hand in this case i think then you would. remember we are 3 handed as well and QJs value goes up especially because we know our opponent has a strong hand and is likely to pay off if we do hit flush or str8, 2 pair or trips in the long run. i think this is a case of implied odds , not reverse implied odds.
    • holmeboy
      holmeboy
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.01.2010 Posts: 1,336
      I could be wrong so we'll have to wait for Veriz opinion lol.

      But my thinking was we hit a nice hand so rarely and we're not going to get paid off everytime we do. If we hit a straight it's going to be the nuts espec on a AKT board which smacks his range. But will he pay off it the board comes 89T? If we hit a flush we're most likely only getting action from Kxdd and Axdd which sucks. Again these senarios are unlikely.

      So imo we're not getting the implied odds.

      The other side is what hands do you see him 3b?

      He has a lot of Ax/Kx hands so if an overcard comes we're x/f a lot. Then using this board as an example what worse Qx cards does he 3b with? If the bdsd doesn't hit we're calling 1/2/3 streets to get dominated by AQ/KQ or if the board was Jxx we're dominated by AJ/KJ. Not to mention overpairs or middle pp's that hit sets.
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Hello ilovemagic,

      Preflop: We ain't calling a 3bet to hit "a nice hand", cause you ain't going to play profitable here and plus you are very often dominated by better Jx/Qx hands. So I don't like either the Call.

      As played
      Postflop: Not much to comment.

      Best Regards.
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      so what am i allowed to call a 3bet if he 3bets looser? say he was 3betting 15% then maybe we can call and see a flop?
    • veriz
      veriz
      Black
      Joined: 20.07.2008 Posts: 65,504
      Originally posted by ilovemagic
      so what am i allowed to call a 3bet if he 3bets looser? say he was 3betting 15% then maybe we can call and see a flop?
      Mate, if poker would be so easy everyone would play it profitable if he had such a chart to follow. It's not only about how often he 3bets it's also about how good you are understanding the opponent, what to do on specific boards, when to fight back and etc. Just to hope to know a hand which you can Call doesn't mean that you will play the hand profitable.

      Poker ain't that easy as you imagine it being. :)
    • ilovemagic
      ilovemagic
      Bronze
      Joined: 09.09.2011 Posts: 1,019
      Thats why i play the game. But you put it into perspective for me. And noe you got me thinking again veriz!!! Thank you