[NL2-NL10] Deep hooks

    • Ectoz
      Ectoz
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.04.2010 Posts: 135
      WHAT IS UP EVERYBODEEEEEEEE????

      Before you start,I'm going to give a lot of details,so bear with me please.If you were ever annoyed by someone just posting a hand without history or reads,well this is going to be your detail paradise.

      I have this hand that I am torn about,whether I made a mistake or not.Would really appreciate any thoughts,comments by all you midstakes ballas.

      I don't have stats on villain (no HUD),but I have reads.Here goes nothing:

      Villain is spewy,open-limping,opening some times 2.5x,some times 3.5x,some times 4x,seems playback-ish. He mixes loose-passive with loose aggressive pre,seems LAG post. Obviously bad.

      Here is the history:

      1st hand,I 3b he folded.

      2nd hand:I had Kc6c,he opened to 2.5bb,I 3bet 9bb,flop Kx2h4h and he c/f.

      This is the third hand:
      SB: $10.00
      BB: $10.00
      UTG: $16.21
      Hero (CO): $21.01
      BTN: $23.96

      Pre Flop: ($0.25) Hero is CO with 6 :spade: 6 :heart:
      UTG raises to $0.25, Hero raises to $0.85, 3 folds, UTG raises to $1.45, Hero calls $0.60

      Flop:
      ($3.15) A :heart: 4 :spade: 7 :diamond: (2 players) UTG bets $2.29, Hero folds

      I called the min4b because of LOL ODDS and I see it as a profitable set mine.
      I can float,raise flops,implied odds are through the roof etcetc. Decided not to because of bet size in correlation with his range for doing this and because my hand can't stand heat.


      The 4th hand.

      BB: $10.00
      UTG: $11.42
      MP: $18.63
      CO: $18.41
      Hero (BTN): $24.25
      SB: $23.76

      Pre Flop: ($0.27)
      Hero is BTN with 9 :spade: 5 :spade: 1 fold, MP raises to $0.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.85, 2 folds, MP calls $0.60

      Flop: ($1.97) 6 :club: 9 :diamond: 6 :heart: (2 players) MP checks, Hero bets $0.94, MP raises to $2.82, Hero calls $1.88

      Turn: ($7.61) 4 :heart: (2 players) MP bets $14.94 all in, Hero calls $14.94

      River: ($37.49) J :heart: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      Final Pot: $37.49
      MP shows K :diamond: 4 :diamond: (two pair, Sixes and Fours)
      Hero shows 9 :spade: 5 :spade: (two pair, Nines and Sixes) Hero wins $35.99

      Self-explanatory.I think he is getting frustrated,don't see what he can c/r that flop for value,TT-AA 4bet pre. 99 super unlikely,not a lot of 6's in his range and I think he slowplays them.In fact I think he slowplays all of his monsters.

      Turn: bitch please

      Chat after the hand:

      Ectoz said, " BOOOOOOOOOOOOOMN"
      Ectoz said, "SH IT"
      Ectoz said, "TAKING NOTES SON?"
      Ectoz said, "WRITE THERE: VERY GOOD PLEYER"

      I wanted to spark something in him,I don't do this,only versus LAG's who might have ambitions after such a provocative chat :)
      As you will see,he did.



      Ok,that's not the hand I'm having trouble with.

      After this one,he re-bought for 250bb,tightened up a few orbits,then he resumed his habits:

      Called a huge 50bb 4bet OOP then c/f flop.
      Called 3bet,he took it down with a donkbet.
      Called vs my 3bet,I had TT,he c/f low board.
      Called vs my 3bet,c/c Axx,donked K,I folded.

      Then,there is the main event.



      BTN: $13.78
      SB: $24.31
      BB: $22.89
      UTG: $17.73
      Hero (MP): $41.14
      CO: $23.35

      Pre Flop: ($0.27) Hero is MP with J :spade: J :heart:
      1 fold, Hero raises to $0.45, 3 folds, BB raises to $22.87 all in, Hero calls $22.42

      Flop: ($45.91) Q :club: 7 :club: 3 :heart: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      Turn: ($45.91) 7 :spade: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      River: ($45.91) T :diamond: (2 players - 1 is all in)

      He snapped it.I tanked 10 secs,then called.
      After all that happened,what range do you put him on.Versus worst case scenario AQ+/TT+,I have 46% equity.

      We are 220bb deep,as you can see.

      WITH THE METAGAME IN THE BACK OF OUR MINDS I WANT to think that he tilt shoves this with a huge range,that's why I called,because I thought he was air balling.

      Versus 77+,AJs+,KJs+,AQo+ we have 55%.

      Is there air in his range?

      Do you think he does this with suited connectors,22-66,suited broadways,random gappers,random air?Am I too optimistic?

      What is our calling range?Is AK synonymous with JJ here?

      I have a huge edge on him imo,hope you think so too.Should the fact that I have an edge make me fold,being deep and all?

      Fold and live to tell the tale?

      Thank you very much if you've got this far.Will answer any questions.
  • 9 replies
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,297
      Originally posted by Ectoz

      I have a huge edge on him imo,hope you think so too.Should the fact that I have an edge make me fold,being deep and all?

      This.

      First time he shoves AI. Might not be that wide at all.

      Why get money in possible flip when you can get it in 80% favourite postflop.

      Not saying it's a bad call, but it possible won't be hugely profitable if at all and it's very high variance. Sometimes he can have random crap in his range but other times his range will be QQ+/AK - especially if he understands what being deep means.
    • Castle93
      Castle93
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2011 Posts: 1,452
      do you always 3bet with crap like 95s and K6s? im never calling with JJ there btw :)
    • Ectoz
      Ectoz
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.04.2010 Posts: 135
      Originally posted by Castle93
      do you always 3bet with crap like 95s and K6s? im never calling with JJ there btw :)
      why are 95s and K6s crap?

      have you noticed they are suited?
    • Tomaloc
      Tomaloc
      Bronze
      Joined: 17.01.2011 Posts: 6,858
      leveling call.

      being the first time i would just give him credit, specially being deep.
      still i feel that favourite fish hands to preflop direct shove are Ax (all of them) and random pairs (including QQ+), when they tilt shove with speculative hands it's by calling pre and sticking it in when they hit ANYTHING on the flop.

      however you asked midstakes players, i'm not one but i just wanted to give my opinion to see how it fares vs actual midstakes players
    • Ectoz
      Ectoz
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.04.2010 Posts: 135
      Originally posted by Tomaloc
      however you asked midstakes players, i'm not one but i just wanted to give my opinion to see how it fares vs actual midstakes players
      lol,no,totally appreciate any comments.Thanks.
    • Castle93
      Castle93
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.06.2011 Posts: 1,452
      Originally posted by Ectoz
      Originally posted by Castle93
      do you always 3bet with crap like 95s and K6s? im never calling with JJ there btw :)
      why are 95s and K6s crap?

      have you noticed they are suited?
      i was actually gunna put is it because their sooootted, their 3 bet bluffs, with equity thats it
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Hey

      Gonna move this to the hand evaluation forum hope you understand

      PatricK
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Great post btw
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Hi,

      if you had smt like 88 then I think it would be much closer than with JJ. Consider your history I think he would mostly 3-bet AA-QQ and would more likely shove all-in medium pp-s, some Ax hands (most likely AK/AQ that does not want to see flop) and some random hands (started maybe tilting again) I think your equity should be easily around 65% that should be easy call.
      JJ that spot is better than AK, since JJ is 80-20 ahead against all his lower pp-s, than AK is only flipping or 45-55 behind. Also that hand ranges show how JJ vs AK doing random hands:

      Hand Equity Wins Ties
      AK 65.75% 21,783,519,396 566,697,972
      ** 34.25% 11,210,941,032 566,697,972
      Edit · Link · 2+2 · Deuces Cracked · LeggoPoker
      Hold'em Simulation ?
      12,585,434,400 trials (Exhaustive)
      Hand Equity Wins Ties
      JJ 77.47% 9,710,037,624 79,664,136
      ** 22.53% 2,795,732,640 79,664,136

      NB! If you´re making 150bb calls with 95s then I think JJ should not be that difficult decision :)

      best regards,