Calling 3bets

    • Vip3rNZ
      Vip3rNZ
      Silver
      Joined: 11.11.2011 Posts: 340
      I'd like to know when if ever is it ok to call a 3bet

      What cards in my hand?

      What position??

      What opponent type??
  • 10 replies
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      It always depends. Obv being IP is better then being OOP. As for hands to flat it depends on your opponents 3bet%. Note that you should have a 3bet pop up for 3-bet %% by and vs position so you know what spots ppl are targeting.

      A guy with 6% 3bet can be 3betting 20% vs BU and 1% vs UTG. This being an extreme example but it goes to show how important is his 3bet by position. Some players like to 3bet IP(BU vs CO, BB vs SB) and others prefer to target BU from the blinds.

      In general you should be defending about 40-50% of the hands your open raise. Now depending on the opponent you can flat different hands, as a general rule you can flat 22-99 for setmine value vs ppl 3betting less then 5% in that spot. You shouldn't be flatting hands like AQ,KQ,56s vs then as their range is 2 strong and brodway cards are going to be dominated a lot and SC won't have enough equity+fold equity to make bluff raises profitable.

      Vs a guy 3betting 15%++ you should be flatting a lot. You can pretty much flat any reasonable cards vs them, (KQ+ AJ+ 55-TT maybe KJs, sometimes QQ+AK if they are agro postflop and tend to barrel off) figuring that hand range is goin to be ahead of their very wide range and you will have them dominated more often then you being dominated yourself since they will be 3betting Axs some suited K's,Q's and J's as well. You can also call SC and gappers with intention to bluff raise every flop you miss(he will be forced to fold a lot since his range is so weak) and float when you hit some sort of a draw. If his agro post and barrels a lot then you can float with a draw and jam over his turn barrel when you have 9+ outs.

      Players 3betting between 5-15% are generally the toughest and i'd play strait forward vs them. Calling value hands KQs+, AQ+ AJs and pairs 88-JJ. Your just forced to fold more vs this type of ballanced ranged.

      As for being IP vs OOP you should be calling more often IP obv. Personally my fold to 3bet IP is 45% while its 60% oop and my overall fold to 3bet is 56%. For me it depends on the opponent and if i think i have a decent postflop edge on him or know about a leak where he fold ill flat even oop.
      Im also more likely to defend with a 4bet oop and more likely to call KK,AA IP.
    • Vip3rNZ
      Vip3rNZ
      Silver
      Joined: 11.11.2011 Posts: 340
      Thank-you very much for your detailed response MatejM47! This has helped me ALOT! you pretty much Nailed what I was looking for in a response!

      It mite be worth mentioning I play 18-24 tables at 2NL - 10NL, I do have a pop-up for how often people 3bet from each position, but not one for how often they 3bet vs a certain position eg. SB vs BB, BU vs CO ect

      This would be very useful tho as I have played over 150k hands at 2NL and have over 500 hands on heaps of people, even over 1-2k on some.

      I'm not sure how to design a pop-up like this ( I use HM2 ).

      The only spots where I have been calling a 3bet is with 22-QQ for set mining against 100bb+ stacks aslong as the 3bet is less then 10bb and I normally just check fold if I miss, I try not to get to much money in on a marginal spot while playing so many tables at such low stakes, should I be doing this differently?
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193


      This is my pop up. I have 2k hands on this opponent(i've taken out his name) and as you can see his 3betting BU vs CO 16% and his 3betting BB/SB vs CO only 2.6% meaning i'll be 4betting him a lot co vs bu but not co vs blinds. Really useful stats.

      You can design your own pop ups/or edit your current one in pop-up designer under hud options. Its pretty easy once you get used to it. Mine's from Alan Jacksons's notecaddy package/custom huds.
    • Vip3rNZ
      Vip3rNZ
      Silver
      Joined: 11.11.2011 Posts: 340
      Is there any way I can download/copy a pop-up like yours?

      after looking at yours and at the designer, i'm confident i could make one the same as yours, it'd be alot easier and faster to just install one tho if possible?
    • DrDunne
      DrDunne
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.12.2010 Posts: 3,338
      Originally posted by MatejM47
      It always depends. Obv being IP is better then being OOP. As for hands to flat it depends on your opponents 3bet%. Note that you should have a 3bet pop up for 3-bet %% by and vs position so you know what spots ppl are targeting.

      A guy with 6% 3bet can be 3betting 20% vs BU and 1% vs UTG. This being an extreme example but it goes to show how important is his 3bet by position. Some players like to 3bet IP(BU vs CO, BB vs SB) and others prefer to target BU from the blinds.

      In general you should be defending about 40-50% of the hands your open raise. Now depending on the opponent you can flat different hands, as a general rule you can flat 22-99 for setmine value vs ppl 3betting less then 5% in that spot. You shouldn't be flatting hands like AQ,KQ,56s vs then as their range is 2 strong and brodway cards are going to be dominated a lot and SC won't have enough equity+fold equity to make bluff raises profitable.

      Vs a guy 3betting 15%++ you should be flatting a lot. You can pretty much flat any reasonable cards vs them, (KQ+ AJ+ 55-TT maybe KJs, sometimes QQ+AK if they are agro postflop and tend to barrel off) figuring that hand range is goin to be ahead of their very wide range and you will have them dominated more often then you being dominated yourself since they will be 3betting Axs some suited K's,Q's and J's as well. You can also call SC and gappers with intention to bluff raise every flop you miss(he will be forced to fold a lot since his range is so weak) and float when you hit some sort of a draw. If his agro post and barrels a lot then you can float with a draw and jam over his turn barrel when you have 9+ outs.

      Players 3betting between 5-15% are generally the toughest and i'd play strait forward vs them. Calling value hands KQs+, AQ+ AJs and pairs 88-JJ. Your just forced to fold more vs this type of ballanced ranged.

      As for being IP vs OOP you should be calling more often IP obv. Personally my fold to 3bet IP is 45% while its 60% oop and my overall fold to 3bet is 56%. For me it depends on the opponent and if i think i have a decent postflop edge on him or know about a leak where he fold ill flat even oop.
      Im also more likely to defend with a 4bet oop and more likely to call KK,AA IP.
      this is a great post, thanks! :f_thumbsup:
    • zobupasts
      zobupasts
      Bronze
      Joined: 10.04.2009 Posts: 310
      Great post MatejM47. One thing though. I wouldn't suggest all beginner/not skilled enough players to start defending 40-50% of the hands they open raise. That will be a huge spew. One must have good postflop skills to play that profitably. IMO beginner players at micro limits are better off folding more to 3bets, like ~75%.
    • LedZayats
      LedZayats
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.05.2012 Posts: 67
      Enjoyed your post, MatejM47. But I have a question: do you think in a cash game it's okay to call a 3bet in position with a small suited connector if the stacks are deep (200+bb) and the opponent's 3bet range is super tight (QQ+) for the pure value of flopping a strong but concealed hand or a very strong draw if you think your opponent is inexperienced and might stack off? How about in the same situation if there was a 3bet and a call and both you and your two opponents are deepstacked? I can never resist peeling off a flop with suited connectors in such a spot, but of course that's in the context of playing nl2/nl5 where you can get paid off with a lot.
    • MatejM47
      MatejM47
      Black
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,193
      @Vip3rNZ Added you in the community

      @zobupasts This is correct. You can afford to fold a bit more on nl10 and lower since people don't 3bet bluff as much and not everyone has a hud. But once you hit nl50 where every reg has a hud then you can't be hanging around tables with 75% fold to 3bet. If you fold that much everyone who has 100 hands on you and a hud will notice it immediately and everyone's going to start 3bet bluffing you a ton.

      In my example guy above, his overall 3bet is 6%, his 3bet vs hero(meaning me) is only 3%. That's because my fold to 3bet is low and my fold to c-bet in 3bet pot is low as well(both being at about 50%) so he figures im more trouble then im worth and play more straitforward vs me. And if his only 3betting me 3% instead of 6% then his 3betting somebody 9% instead of 6%.

      Basically the more you fold the more ppl will 3bet you so defending more has an added benefit of ppl leaving you alone and not 3betting you as often.

      And being a beginner on micros even if you can afford to fold more you really shouldn't. You have to learn how to defend vs 3bets at some point and doing it on nl2 vs weaker opponents and where mistakes cost you a few cents definitely isnt a problem. Losing a few stacks on nl2 hurts a lot less then losing them on nl50 or nl100. You will never gain good postflop skills if you keep folding preflop.

      @Its definitely fine to peel with speculative hands as you get deeper. Hands like A5s and 67s get more value as you get deeper while hands like QQ+AK go way down in value. Reason being you will never stack someone 200bb+ deep when you have AA overpair even in a 3bet pot since unless your up vs a fish noone is sticking in 200 stacks with a worse 1 pair hand. So yes once you get that deep against fish and you have a decent hand that can crack an overpair then you can call to flop something decent in a attempt to stack him and you can still just fold when you flop less then 8 outs, meaning that if you just flop 1 pair you go c/f and if you flop osed or better you can peel the flop with a lot of money behind.

      If another guy calls then your likely up against 2 fishes since cold calling 3bets isn't really a standard play from any regs. That means that there is double the chances to stack one of them if you flop something good so peeling is even better.
    • yougotfelted51
      yougotfelted51
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.02.2010 Posts: 1,276
      Hey MatejM47,
      That pop-up looks phenomenal and extremely helpful. Am I able to do that on my own in HEM2 or is it only downloadable?
    • Vip3rNZ
      Vip3rNZ
      Silver
      Joined: 11.11.2011 Posts: 340
      Thanks again for another amazing post MatejM :D I've accepted your friend request in the community, your my first friend :)