party network segregating players according to winrate !!??

    • lmr1983
      lmr1983
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.08.2007 Posts: 1,717
      Hello!

      I see here is no topic for this. We found an internesting thing after the last update at this network. If true it is a really sad thing, especially if they kept and done it in secret.
      I translate my original post, and include some scan data i made this hour.
      Sry for my far from perfect english.

      One of our scene member complained about he see less tables at BWIN with his former screename with more poker success than at the Partypoker one. The difference was around 1/4-1/3 of the tables.

      Now here are my results and post:
      "At first i did not believe in this theory but lol...i experience this also.
      At party i ran quite well in the last 1-2 months, while my Bwin acc is about 1 years old, with a small sample, and without valuable results.


      I ran these scans with Tablescanner Turbo, with 1 minutes difference approximately. This was the time to logout and login to the other site, check the filters etc.
      Then i made a second scan with the same conditions.

      Results:
      T=Number of tables seen by scanner
      P=Number of players
      i ran it on FR+SH without any more lobby filters


      BWIN
      SCAN1
      NL10 T50 P319
      NL25 T39 P222

      SCAN2
      NL10 T50 P323
      NL25 T36 P204


      PARTY
      SCAN1
      NL10 T35 P220
      NL25 T28 P164

      SCAN2
      NL10 T35 P224
      NL25 T29 P158

      I think anyone, who has grinding experiences knows number of tables cant really fluctate this fast. Only 1-2-3 tables starting or closing in a minute even at higher traffic. But it was 10-11 AM, with low traffic...
      The results i found is also a difference of 1/3-1/4 of the whole field... but in the reverse direction !

      I dont really know what to say. Reading others complaints, and seeing mine, i dont really think its an accidental fault of the last update. Sad, but it seems an intentional segregation according to poker success.
      If interested, just run some scans with a successful account and for eg a breakeven one.

      I dont know what it is, but i felt this week after the update, that field is not that softy as its used to be. And others are complaining about, the scanners hit list, is changed even a bit more radical...
  • 147 replies
    • jachis
      jachis
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.04.2008 Posts: 745
      I have no idea is this true, but after the last updated I've noticed that theres less traffic and the tables seem to be more reg-full. Maybe just a coincidence.

      I already kind of hate the software its the most buggy soft I've played on. So if this is confirmed, im definitely moving.
    • Deomedes
      Deomedes
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.11.2011 Posts: 135
      Well, i myself complained the last two days about the tougher field but probably it was me playing or table selecting bad.

      I also believe that it doesn't make sense for them to have done something like that in secret. Anyways if that somehow happens to be true we are leaving asap.

      Average-high rake without rakeback, average-bad software, tougher field now. Well no need to add more reasons.
    • PumaPerez
      PumaPerez
      Silver
      Joined: 09.11.2009 Posts: 4,279
      this is how my tables looks like on monday night:



      i was wondering why there are no regish players. i could spot few through TST, but generally there was plenty of whales to play with. after some fish leaved the table another one hopped in. it was like in poker heaven :D i dont know if i am so bad player (i am basiclly break even since i signed to bwin. also day before this i lost like 7BI) that software puts me into this pool with them, or it was mistake. or nothing changes and there are still fishes to hunt. :)
    • HrabriLavek
      HrabriLavek
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.09.2012 Posts: 450
      I was wondering why there are all of the sudden so little FR tables in my playtime..thought its just the limit or everyone went on fast forward with that promotion going on...

      seems weird they would do that...
    • siweq86
      siweq86
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.12.2009 Posts: 8,743
      puma, can u contact to me? If u have TST we can check by Teamviewer is it show us the same tables in the same moments?

      [Skype Removed - Please use Community Tool to contact user]
    • NymXXL
      NymXXL
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.05.2008 Posts: 295
      Ok I am from Czech community where we have similar thread.

      Two ppl were running scans. I dont know any other details, but here are results of today´s scans.

      1. NL25 ( max 90 sec delay between those scans )

      PartyPoker - 165 players
      Bwin - 240 players ( much more fishes )

      2. NL100 SH

      WTP - 158/161 players
      Bwin - 221/240 players
    • lmr1983
      lmr1983
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.08.2007 Posts: 1,717
      last week or a bit before i made a screenshot where im sitting with 7 fishmarked player at a 25fr table, small sample but all of them were 40vpip+ and small pfr types, or not more scarier :) im also good at manual table and seat selection, i like to start tables also, and i think i nicely configured tst turbo, so i shouldnt have troubles with it

      now, despite of i have at about a 100kilobyte Watchlist.txt file (its the one where party stores the colour code marks) i rarely find tables running with 2-3 marked guys before thats why i liked party. now i made a 2hours session the scanner gave me 5-6 hits of 45vpip+ guys (including sh stats also), which is not tragic, but most of the time those 5-6hits were the same regularly playing ones, may of them with not that bad showdown stats, so i still think they did something, and i think it more stronger
    • wotsss
      wotsss
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2011 Posts: 170
      Just wondering if this has anything to do with it:

      PartyPoker Unfair Advantage Policy:

      "Examples of practices we deem to be unfair... :

      ...

      3. Rating Manipulation:
      Players intentionally losing games on low stakes tables to keep their rank at a lower level than it would otherwise be."

      What rank are they talking about and why would they care / mind if I feel like spewing around a little at nl2 or if I want to go tilt there instead of my main limit? What is unfair about it? Or does my winrate influence something?

      And yeah, same here - experiencing much worse traffic since the last update.

      Btw it would be sick if they really did it esp. now when they know that regs try to grind for their last Palladium Elite status.
    • jachis
      jachis
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.04.2008 Posts: 745
      Wow, so I guess its actually true? I guess I finish my bonus and Im off.
    • lmr1983
      lmr1983
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.08.2007 Posts: 1,717
      sad, cuz i just configured everything well, after a some months struggle with this client. and i ran a super month. grind was as smooth as i d be at stars, i found everything, no timeouts, no monkey things. i have found very cool tables before :(

      the same with the black friday. i started to be ok at my first serious micro sh try, and they stole the usa :P then strugglestrugglestruggle with the next limit
    • jachis
      jachis
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.04.2008 Posts: 745
      Also do you think the same logic applies to fast forward tables, like with some fancy algorythm thats sits people by some wierd Rating ?
    • wotsss
      wotsss
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2011 Posts: 170
      "PartyPoker’s parent company, Bwin.party, announced in August of last year that it was planning to make changes in favor of casual players. In an effort to optimise the poker ecology, those changes included removing high-stakes tables, protecting recreational players from sharks who target them, and focusing more on retaining casual players and establishing player pools that are not overloaded with professional grinders."

      january 15, 2013

      source:

      http://www.pokernewsreport.com/partypoker-makes-changes-to-attract-casual-players-11465

      :f_confused:
    • Aliosa10
      Aliosa10
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.11.2010 Posts: 541
      Do you check the filter setings in the lobby to be the same? At me no difference from Party to Bwin but I was reg in both of them.
    • lmr1983
      lmr1983
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.08.2007 Posts: 1,717
      hello

      now i have got nicer scan results:
      i have got an idea seeimg someones, who counting/ scanning tables while logged off (with the same filters while logged in), and comparing the results while logged in

      so i scanned Bwin and Party both logged on and logged off. i also exited, restarted the clients to prevent that they contain the prevoius states

      When i was offline at Party, when i was offline at Bwin, and when i was Online at Party the scan results was exactly the same.
      I got significantly (+30%) more tables when i scanned bwin while logged in.
      (im basically a steady eddie at lowstakes for some years ago, not that super, but winning stable, and now im operating at party simce last summer)

      I think according to this it is maybe a positive result, and not a possible discrimination of poker regulars. Maybe they made a bug at the last update or something.

      but ofc im still confused
    • Trever
      Trever
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.11.2008 Posts: 53
      I have an account at bwin and party. At bwin, I am a regular player. At the party, I have not played for several years. When I came to the party, I saw a lot of bad players. And the players were more than bwin. But it was only two days. The player then has the same, and tables with bad players are gone.
    • Deemerus
      Deemerus
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.06.2010 Posts: 769
      Hi im from Polish section on pokerstrategy and we investigated this problem deeply.

      It's clearly segregated.
      For example when im logged in i see 200 ppl on NL50 6 max with some fishes.
      Some guy who didn't play for years on one of hes account scanned tables with TST and there were 280 ppl. It could be bug but...
      He sent screenshot of most lucrative tables on the limit. On all of them there were at least 3 fishes, usually 5. In my lobby i saw 2 out of 15 tables he shown.

      Coincidence? I dont think so.
    • baraiant
      baraiant
      Silver
      Joined: 11.07.2010 Posts: 23
      With this i think they proved once and for all that they are rigged. Not only this but i think the rng is riiged. http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/7190/screenshot227201350545p.jpg
      As u can see in the image they make a poker rating for each player, the only reason to do this is to control his win rate...
      On my account i see 71 tables ATM with only 5 big fishes at 10 and 4 NL, and my sister sees 107 tables with 30+ fishes....
    • Agiz19
      Agiz19
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.03.2007 Posts: 1,097
      Has anyone contacted Party regarding this matter ot is this just plain guessing.... :s_cool:
    • Agiz19
      Agiz19
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.03.2007 Posts: 1,097
      i have just contacted party and got a response by them regarding your findings :

      Please note that PartyPoker has not segregated players based on their win rate. I can assure you that the pools of players on our tables remain unchanged and all players can take part in all games, regardless of their win rate. Thanks in advance for your understanding.

      so its maybe just a software bug.....