[NL20-NL50] NL50 SH - KJo, riverbluff

    • kesgab
      kesgab
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.05.2007 Posts: 217
      Known players:
      Position:
      Stack
      Hero:
      $49,50
      BB:
      $44,75

      0,25/0,5 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.60 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is SB with K:club: , J:diamond:
      4 folds, Hero raises to $2,00, BB calls $1,50.

      Flop: ($4,00) 8:diamond: , 2:diamond: , 5:club: (2 players)
      Hero bets $3,00, BB calls $3,00.

      Turn: ($10,00) Q:diamond: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $3,00, Hero calls $3,00.

      River: ($16,00) A:heart: (2 players)
      Hero bets $10,00, BB calls $10,00.

      Final Pot: $36,00

      I am not sure about any of my actions here.

      Villain has
      38% (3/8) call pfr,
      0% (0/1) fold to cbet,
      25% (1/4) fold to flop bet

      Preflop: i don't know if the raise or just a call is better, cause i don't have enough folding equity preflop and postflop out of position agains this guy

      Flop: i think it's a mistake here, i should simple check/fold, because he won't fold enough and i won't know where i stand

      Turn: it's a tough spot to evaluate, cause i dont't know what implied odds or reversed implied odds i have for the flush draw, but i though my flush would mostly win and the Kings and the Jacks can be good also, so i called

      River: i thought he has mostly weak hands here, so i tried a bluff representing an Ace.

      I tried to put him on range for calculation, but it's too wide and i gave up, but here is a calculation anyway:

      if he calls with: KQ,QJ,QT,Q9s,Q8s,85s,A2,A5,A8,AQ,22,55,88,QQ,AA,KK,JJ,Ad2+
      and folds with: 87,98,65,54,66,77,99,67,T8s

      In this case i have 40% fold equity.
  • 9 replies
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Qd is good card to double barrel, it is better than c/c turn, since you´re oop and you don´t have good implied odds if you should hit your flush.
      Since your checked turn, then players don´t put you on ace and would call with any pair. Your line doesn´t make sense to them
      Why should you c/c with Ax on the turn.
      So I´d c/f river.
    • kesgab
      kesgab
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.05.2007 Posts: 217
      You mean that i would bet out on turn with Ad2+, A3d+ (flush draw + overcard) hands, that's why my line doesn't make any sense? Isn't a c/c possible with them also (from a more passive player)?
      Although, i am not sure if this big riverbet from me fits to this line. I would probably bet smaller if i had a high kicker.

      (Anyway, at least my read that he had weak hand on the turn was right, he showed Ac2s.)

      Thanks,
      kesgab
    • lilprincess
      lilprincess
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.05.2008 Posts: 2,549
      i like check/raising the turn if you want to bluff
    • kukac26
      kukac26
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.11.2007 Posts: 126
      He did tell you his hand was weak.. right there on the flop

      When you check/called his turn bet you gave him the pot (that he got the ace was just lucky for him, else your desperation bets saves the day).

      If you lead the turn (representing the flush) or better, C/R (same thing) you're folding him out.

      C-bet on the flop was almost mandatory, so no worries there.
    • kesgab
      kesgab
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.05.2007 Posts: 217
      I know it's too general, but is it ok to say that it's usually a good spot to second barrel when an overcard that completes a flush draw hits the turn?
      I mean it could also help him.

      Are these postflop bluffs all about finding spots where the board and your line allows you to represent as many good hands as possible (not just one kind)? Where your opponent has to think that 'well i have top pair, but he might has a flush, a straight, two pair or a set too, so i have to fold to this turn bet...'?
      He might have one of that made hands, but if not he certainly has to fold and that can give us enough fold equity.

      Does it make any sense to you guys? I mean i would be happy to hear opinions from experienced players.

      Thanks,
      kesgab
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by kesgab
      I know it's too general, but is it ok to say that it's usually a good spot to second barrel when an overcard that completes a flush draw hits the turn?
      I mean it could also help him.

      Are these postflop bluffs all about finding spots where the board and your line allows you to represent as many good hands as possible (not just one kind)? Where your opponent has to think that 'well i have top pair, but he might has a flush, a straight, two pair or a set too, so i have to fold to this turn bet...'?
      He might have one of that made hands, but if not he certainly has to fold and that can give us enough fold equity.

      Does it make any sense to you guys? I mean i would be happy to hear opinions from experienced players.

      Thanks,
      kesgab
      I´m playing nl 200 and started nl 10. Do you think that is experienced enough?

      You´re playing against player who is playing 66 % of his starting hands and his aggresion factor is 3,2, which means that he mostly plays his draws aggressively. So it is unlikely that he holds flushdraw. Most likely he has a low pair or maybe any 2 cards.
      Either way Q is good card to double barrel, since you raised pf and show a lot of strength postflop by betting again on the turn.

      If you bet turn, you´re representing set, tp, overpair, flush- is that enough?

      Are these postflop bluffs all about finding spots where the board and your line allows you to represent as many good hands as possible (not just one kind)? Where your opponent has to think that 'well i have top pair, but he might has a flush, a straight, two pair or a set too, so i have to fold to this turn bet...'?
      He might have one of that made hands, but if not he certainly has to fold and that can give us enough fold equity.

      Does it make any sense to you guys?
      Yes , sometimes other player has here set/two pair/flush, but against that player it is not so likely. That´s why stats are so important and knowing how opponent would play his draw/made hands/weak hands/does he float you on the flop or gives up when he misses? If you can answer these questions to the other person, then poker comes very simple game and giving these information my suggestion was to bet/fold turn, rather than c/c and bluffbet river, since it doesn´t make sense (if you had tp or better hand, why would you check on the turn or drawy board).
    • kesgab
      kesgab
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.05.2007 Posts: 217
      Hi Kaitz20,

      I think it was a bit misunderstanding here, maybe due to my english, because i really appreciate your evaluations and comments, and i of course know that you are an experienced and skilled player, which i can only hope to become once. If i ask something again, i just want to really undersand it, cause that's the only way i can improve my game and if i can't i still accept the evaluation and think i don't have the necessary knowledge yet to understand it.
      In my last post i wanted to ask my question in general, not specifically to this hand. Like a strategy concept that, how i should think about bluffs (if that's possible at all to say something so general).
      That's why i asked opinions from players who has more experience than me, including you of course, to say something about it.

      Thanks you for your last reply, you gave some really useful ideas to me how i should think abou my opponents play. (Like high vpip and aggression usually means raises with draws.)
    • Kaitz20
      Kaitz20
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.02.2007 Posts: 27,343
      Originally posted by kesgab
      Hi Kaitz20,

      I think it was a bit misunderstanding here, maybe due to my english, because i really appreciate your evaluations and comments, and i of course know that you are an experienced and skilled player, which i can only hope to become once. If i ask something again, i just want to really undersand it, cause that's the only way i can improve my game and if i can't i still accept the evaluation and think i don't have the necessary knowledge yet to understand it.
      In my last post i wanted to ask my question in general, not specifically to this hand. Like a strategy concept that, how i should think about bluffs (if that's possible at all to say something so general).
      That's why i asked opinions from players who has more experience than me, including you of course, to say something about it.

      Thanks you for your last reply, you gave some really useful ideas to me how i should think abou my opponents play. (Like high vpip and aggression usually means raises with draws.)
      Hmm, I was at your level 4 months ago and moved up to nl 100 at June or at the end of May. So probably you´ve played more hands and facing more interesting situations than I. ( I play 10k-15k per month, last three months very big winrate).
      But general advise for bluffing- represent smt that you would have played the same way with aces/kings/queens
      If you´re betting 3 streets oop with AA on 3-flush board, then you can also sometimes make that move with A high (but if you c/c turn or river when scary card comes, then it is bad to fire second barrel as bluff imo).
      And being oop makes it harder. I often gives up when my contibet is called and c/f a lot of turns. If I know that player could float then I c/f alswo a lot of flops.
      Also important: once you showed weakness- by checking on the turn or flop then players would call you down light, since they don´t believe that you have smt.
    • kesgab
      kesgab
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.05.2007 Posts: 217
      Hi Kaitz20,

      i forgot to reply to you here...

      Thanks for sharing some thoughts about bluffing concepts. I also noticed that if i check turn usually they don't believe me. That's why i really like the line to check turn with top pair hands, they often try to bluff me on river :) .
      I found it also helpful to consider to just c/f oop against players who can float.

      Jumping up from nl50 to nl100 in two months? (if i get you right)
      You don't waste time :) . Nice improvement!

      I've been playing nl50 for a month now, so i have another left... :) No seriously, i feel good at this level now, it's at the top of my comfort zone, and i feel this is the right limit for my skills now. I don't play a lot lately, i think i only played about 5-8k hands last month. I concentrate on improving my game and try to always play my best. I evaluate every session, go through again on every hand, which i find really helpful. I've been only doing this for two weeks now but i already feel that my game has improved.

      Best regards,
      kesgab