Discussion Thread: Hand Reading

  • 14 replies
    • Boomer2k10
      Boomer2k10
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.09.2010 Posts: 2,551
      Exercises for "The Five Player Types"

      • You have minraised from the BU and get a cold call from the SB. Now you find yourself in the following spot:



      • You are facing a maniac; what should you do?

      • What should you do in the exact same spot if you were facing a calling station instead?


      Further discussion:
      • How often will you face each of the different player types at the tables?
      • Do you color-code the different player types in order to recognize them more quickly? If you do: What does your system look like exactly?
      • What player type will make you the most money? Why? What mistakes does he make and how can you exploit them?
    • bobocop
      bobocop
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.04.2010 Posts: 125
      I'm not really sure about that question from the quiz:

      QUESTION 6:
      You are playing against a calling station and you have already bet on the flop and the turn. How would you proceed on the river?

      Qs5h4h3c3s

      You should bet. (1 Points)
      You should check. (0 Points)

      Your answer You should check. (0 Points)


      It's been said in the lesson (2:15) that with missed draws calling stations like to bluff. I see two potentially missed draws on the river - shouldn't we check to try to induce bluff?
    • grrgrrbla
      grrgrrbla
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.05.2010 Posts: 421
      It's been said in the lesson (2:15) that with missed draws calling stations like to bluff. I see two potentially missed draws on the river - shouldn't we check to try to induce bluff?


      The question is: is he calling more often than betting himself and the answer is prbly yes. just count the combos of his betting-range and his bluffingrange. He usually has more Qx and 2ndpair-type hands which will call but mostly not bet, and less draws.
    • kennethjeu
      kennethjeu
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.08.2011 Posts: 621
      Originally posted by Boomer2k10
      Exercises for "The Five Player Types"

      • You have minraised from the BU and get a cold call from the SB. Now you find yourself in the following spot:



      • You are facing a maniac; what should you do?

      • What should you do in the exact same spot if you were facing a calling station instead?


      Further discussion:
      • How often will you face each of the different player types at the tables?
      • Do you color-code the different player types in order to recognize them more quickly? If you do: What does your system look like exactly?
      • What player type will make you the most money? Why? What mistakes does he make and how can you exploit them?
      - Since I'm facing a maniac I will call the raise since he can be aggressive with worse hands than ours and we have position on the later streets. Depending on how aggro he is, I would consider a fold if we were OOP (if the maniac isn't all over the top maniac). On the turn I would evaluate the board again and his betting size again. I would like to go to SD, but don't want to make the pot too big with only TPGK. If I improve I do want to play for stacks.

      - Against a calling station TPGK isn't strong enough to go further with the hand so I would just fold it. FD he would be playing passively, so probably I'm facing a better J or a set.
    • Boomer2k10
      Boomer2k10
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.09.2010 Posts: 2,551
      Exercise for Average Ranges

      An average range is a range that a certain player type plays pre-flop in most cases.



      Exercises for average ranges
      How does a quintessential NIT play on your limits?:
      • What hands will he open raise?
      • What hands will he cold call?
      • What hands will he 3bet?
      • What are the differences compared to the ranges in the article?
    • nikihunden
      nikihunden
      Silver
      Joined: 31.05.2015 Posts: 32
      Have read the articles about the different player types.
      They are created as being played at NL10.

      My question is: What should we expect at higher levels?
      A more loose gameplay?
    • FrozenElf
      FrozenElf
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.07.2015 Posts: 808
      I didn't know you did exercise's like this, I love this idea,

      Vs Maniac

      In this spot we have a perfect bluff catching hand, the maniacs range looks something like this, JX, TX, 5X, 22-JJ, although I think 88-JJ would 3bet, most of the time at least, I think reraise/shoving is too weak, it gets all the air to fold and all the hands that beat us to call, I would call flop, and go from there.

      Vs CS

      This is a clear fold, CS postflop 2betting range is usually 2 pair +, we are crushed vs that range.


      Further discussion:
      • How often will you face each of the different player types at the tables?
      • Do you color-code the different player types in order to recognize them more quickly? If you do: What does your system look like exactly?
      • What player type will make you the most money? Why? What mistakes does he make and how can you exploit them?
      The CS, is much more common at micro stakes, the maniac, doesn't appear to be as common as the CS, this could be due to my lack of ability to spot them.

      I colour code CS light green, the mistakes they make, are:

      Cold calling weak hands,
      Min 3betting monsters,
      Calling multiple barrels with weak/trash,
      Calling to much on draws,
      They hopelessly bluff missed draws on blank rivers,
      That's all I can think off,

      To exploit them, we can bet flop, turn and river with weaker hands for value, TPGK type hands, and medium strength hands, we can bluff induce on the river, and set mine super profitably when they 3bet.

      I colour code maniac's purple, and there mistakes are:

      They cold call with very weak hands,
      They multi barrel bluff
      They 2bet bluff weak/trash

      They are crazy I cant think of anything else, apart from 1 thing, although I don't believe its a weakness, vs a tag, witch is why tag players get so mad with them, they 3bet so wide,

      The correct strategy vs them is, first and most important, preflop adjustment, we are going to get 3bet almost every time, 4bet bluffs are hopeless, so even thinking about, raising blocker hands to 4bet bluff is plain stupid, so we need to tighten our range up to something like 88+ AQ+, these hands we can call 3bets, with the bluff catchers 88-TT maybe JJ depends how he reacts to 4bets, if he folds to 4bets to often, I will cold call his 3bets with all my big pairs, next is 4bet shoving, I believe its best to use unpaired hands for this, if we 4bet without shoving, he calls we miss, then what? check fold after committing half our stack? no thanks!

      When he cold calls our raise, we can play check fold when we miss, and bluff inducing tactics when we hit.

      :f_drink:
    • FrozenElf
      FrozenElf
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.07.2015 Posts: 808
      Exercises for average ranges
      How does a quintessential NIT play on your limits?:
      • What hands will he open raise?
      • What hands will he cold call?
      • What hands will he 3bet?
      • What are the differences compared to the ranges in the article?


      The average range for a nit,

      Open raising

      UTG- 66+ AJs AQ+
      MP- 22+ AT+
      CO- 22+ A6s+ A9o 67s+ suited and unsuited broadways
      BTN- pretty much the same range as CO, adding A2s+ 45s+
      SB- 22+ AT+ suited and unsuited broadways

      They cold call pocket pairs, they 3bet with AK, QQ, some of the 3bet 99+ around the blinds.

      The fact they cold call small pocket pairs, kind of makes our bet to be only called by better, witch makes all of our hands, when we hit, bluff catchers, fortunately, a lot of nits are aggressive when checked to them, and bluff, they also check fold, so we can just cbet bluff almost any flop, some of them limp, with there pocket pairs, so we can raise under the 20 20 rule, and exploit this.
    • scopinad
      scopinad
      Bronze
      Joined: 13.06.2015 Posts: 285
      OK, explain this,
      how do you know a 3-bet range of a nit FROM THE SB, if he 3-bets me and I am in say MP2?? What if I was in the BU, he should 3-bet lighter. Explain if the 3-bet range is relative to the villain's (me) position or it is the nit's position.
      Sorry if this question sounds stupid but I am a noob.
    • Lazza61
      Lazza61
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 23.03.2011 Posts: 9,958
      Hey scopinad,

      I believe you are correct. SB's 3Bet range should be looser against BU than MP2, so position is relevant for both Hero and Villain.

      Cheers :f_drink:

      Laz
    • tonirul3z
      tonirul3z
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.10.2015 Posts: 25
      Cool incentive to get people more involved on the forums :) :f_drink: :f_drink:
    • Post removed

    • Post removed

    • Post removed