NL10SH Challenge. 1.5months 100k hands!

    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      50 Days, 100k hands! 10bb+ ev winrate?

      I see there is a new challenge forum here. I was recently inspired by this thread:
      2p2 NL500 mini Challenge thread (apologies if I'm not supposed to link to 2p2) and would like to start of this forum with a micro-stakes version of quoted Challenge. I'm now playing NL25 and NL50 as my main games and thus to drop down in limits this challenge will be done on NL10.

      I will use the experience to try and learn 4-6 table focus while playing 6-9 tables (or more), improve my ranges in some spots (vs 3bets, raising vs cbets, C/C vs riverbets, improving BB winrate?) and most importantly i'll be enjoying my time splashing around at the tables.

      My Alltime stars NL10 graph:



      My graph with showdown lines:



      I'll be starting my "NL10 play on the side" on Thursday. I'll try to post hands played per session and post a graph once per week minimum. Hope you all enjoy.
  • 52 replies
    • UPAY4DINNER
      UPAY4DINNER
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.09.2009 Posts: 21,926
      Wohoo another challenge for our new board!

      Best of luck DaPhunk!
    • TinoLaan
      TinoLaan
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2011 Posts: 6,411
      Some nice looking graphs there! So I think you can be pretty confident going into this challenge :f_thumbsup:

      Good luck!
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Thanks guys. I played my first NL10 session earlier today. 488 hands 6 tabling because I'm not at home and my laptop screen feels super small right now compared to a 20 inch screen or 32 inch tv lol. Sooner I can get on a bigger screen the better!

      When I post a hand I will try to categorise my line into good or bad and say If I think I got lucky or unlucky if it is appropriate.

      First Hand: Bad Play

      Villain is 17/13 overall on over 600 hands. He does not fold much to 3bets (40%) has a 64% overall fold to cbet and low fold to turnbet.

      Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      UTG: $10.67
      CO: $4.87
      BTN: $19.66
      Hero (SB): $11.50
      BB: $12.83

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with A :heart: 9 :heart:
      2 folds, BTN raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.70

      Flop: ($2.10) Q :diamond: 6 :diamond: 2 :heart: (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.15, BTN calls $1.15

      Turn: ($4.40) K :club: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN checks

      River: ($4.40) 8 :club: (2 players)
      Hero bets $2.10, BTN calls $2.10

      Why bad play?
      a) If the villain is as weak as I think he is he should have a hard time facing a turn-bet here even when he holds AQ or QJ.
      b) I thought of betting huge to put pressure on Qx as he may be the type to find hero-calling tough. In the end however I went for a smaller bet with the intention of looking like a Qx myself so that he could fold 55, 77, 99, TT and call AQ, QJ QT. (48 folds : 36 calls) However I believe this range is simply unrealistic and is more weighted to 2nd pair type hands. (It seems likely to me I'll get 24 folds to 60 calls at best)
    • Kruppe
      Kruppe
      Black
      Joined: 20.02.2008 Posts: 2,144
      good luck
    • KnowHung
      KnowHung
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.07.2013 Posts: 90
      Will place my eyes in here, good luck.
    • fusionpk
      fusionpk
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,683
      dont like checking turn if you're bluffing R. I just b/b/shove

      but honestly vs a villain w/ 65% fcbet, he's prolly pretty fit/fold so in general I bet one time.

      dont mind either play depends how likely u think he is to fold a Q on R
    • kennethjeu
      kennethjeu
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.08.2011 Posts: 621
      Originally posted by fusionpk
      dont like checking turn if you're bluffing R. I just b/b/shove

      but honestly vs a villain w/ 65% fcbet, he's prolly pretty fit/fold so in general I bet one time.

      dont mind either play depends how likely u think he is to fold a Q on R
      Bet/Bet/Shove with a bluff? as played would try 2 streets for bluff here... 600 hands isn't that much for a fold to turn cbet stat so wouldn't pay that much attention at it... The turn is a good card for us to bluff on I think, as it is an overcard... If he had a FD he prob wont go further with them either...

      but I dont think A9s is that great of a hand to play OOP in a 3bet pot... I would fold that one and do it with AJ+ I think...
    • fusionpk
      fusionpk
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,683
      If I think he can fold a Q I like b/b/shove yeah.

      But my point with the single bet is that fit/fold guys don't float wide, and when they have a hand they generally don't fold. (Ofc this is a generalisation)

      2 bets would probably fold the pocket pairs for sure but.. really you think he will fold a flush draw IP to a second bet? I'm not sure I agree.. then we ch/fold R and lose even when he misses.

      b/c/b line as taken is just i think bad, you rep like AQ and that's it. There's no more action to go so he can just shut his eyes and click call.

      My _personal opinion_ is go with 1 or 3 in this spot OOP. Maybe IP is a little different.

      Not trying to argue here, just think it's an interesting discussion.

      Edit: I do agree that I wouldn't 3b this PF OOP vs a guy who is definitely calling me. It makes it a bit better that he folds to cbet alot but still.. rather go with a range that plays better. IP I think it's fine.
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Thanks for the kind words everyone. As Promised I have to post a graph for the week. I downswung fairly early on and think I actually tilted a little bit due to being way too overzealous. I got myself back in gear after that though.

      Graph:



      I seems I'm playing a somewhat LAG style at the moment:

      [/URL]


      Hands:
      I have a several hands marked so I'll just post 5 in spoiler thingies. I'll add a 'standard' or 'unusual' to show how common or easy a decision was for me. The bolded hands are the 2 more interesting ones for me.

      1) 'Standard, good play' : I have AQ and face a river raise versus a TAG. I think villain is extremely unlikely to be raising as a bluff here, my range is strong and he simply won't be thinking of raising a hand other than KJ.

      Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 2268038
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BB: $11.70
      UTG: $10.73
      MP: $10.79
      CO: $2.61
      BTN: $17.45
      Hero (SB): $23.57

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with Q :club: A :diamond:
      UTG raises to $0.29, 2 folds, BTN calls $0.29, Hero calls $0.24, 1 fold

      Flop: ($0.97) Q :diamond: T :heart: 8 :club: (3 players)
      Hero bets $0.60, UTG folds, BTN calls $0.60

      Turn: ($2.17) 3 :club: (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.25, BTN calls $1.25

      River: ($4.67) A :heart: (2 players)
      Hero bets $3.15, BTN raises to $7.40, Hero folds

      Villain is 23/17 TAG on 615 hands. 71% foldtocbet and just 22% bet river. Super low raise stats too!


      2) 'unusual, good/ok play' JJ facing turnraise. Shipping preflop may be better.

      Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      BB: $15.38
      UTG: $11.97
      Hero (CO): $17.35
      BTN: $16.00
      SB: $10.27

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with J :diamond: J :club:
      1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN raises to $0.90, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.60

      Flop: ($1.95) 3 :spade: 5 :diamond: Q :diamond: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN checks

      Turn: ($1.95) 8 :diamond: (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.05, BTN raises to $3.10, Hero calls $2.05

      River: ($8.15) 6 :club: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BTN bets $4.70, Hero calls $4.70

      Final Pot: $17.55
      Hero shows J :diamond: J :club:
      BTN shows A :diamond: K :spade:
      Hero wins $16.76
      (Rake: $0.79)

      Villain is 19/16 with 7% 3bet on 965 hands. Roughly 50% cbet both in and out of position.


      3) 'unusual, undecided' AA facing turndonk and riverbet. I could raise turn here I guess.

      Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      CO: $14.47
      Hero (BTN): $12.42
      SB: $22.03
      BB: $8.87

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with A :spade: A :diamond:
      CO raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $0.80, 2 folds, CO calls $0.50

      Flop: ($1.75) 5 :heart: T :diamond: 8 :spade: (2 players)
      CO checks, Hero bets $0.95, CO calls $0.95

      Turn: ($3.65) 9 :spade: (2 players)
      CO bets $2.00, Hero calls $2

      River: ($7.65) 6 :spade: (2 players)
      CO bets $10.72, Hero folds

      Villain is 26/19 on 147 hands. Low sample makes me suspicous of reading into his stats further but they are all pretty standard.


      4) 'unusual cbet, undecided' I cbet AKo on a board I don't think hits villain range very well. It also doesn't hit my range very well which is the problem.

      Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      UTG: $11.09
      MP: $13.67
      CO: $10.00
      BTN: $5.00
      Hero (SB): $10.80
      BB: $12.10

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with K :club: A :spade:
      3 folds, BTN raises to $0.35, Hero raises to $1.20, BB calls $1.10, 1 fold

      Flop: ($2.75) 3 :diamond: 4 :heart: 6 :heart: (2 players)
      Hero bets $1.50, BB calls $1.50

      Turn: ($5.75) 5 :heart: (2 players)
      Hero checks, BB bets $2.40, Hero folds

      BB is 16/11 on 558 hands 60% fold to cbet (but big imbalance IP/OOP). very low bet %'s.


      5) 'unusual, probably bad play' raising turnminbet with two-pair we face a Jam.

      Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
      DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

      SB: $4.00
      BB: $5.49
      UTG: $10.00
      MP: $15.87
      CO: $11.90
      Hero (BTN): $11.13

      Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with A :heart: 4 :spade:
      3 folds, Hero raises to $0.25, 1 fold, BB calls $0.15

      Flop: ($0.55) A :spade: 6 :spade: 7 :diamond: (2 players)
      BB checks, Hero checks

      Turn: ($0.55) 4 :club: (2 players)
      BB bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.50, BB raises to $5.24, Hero calls $4.74

      River: ($11.03) Q :heart: (2 players)

      55/14 villain on 45 hands. High flop and turn aggression 60%+ but obviously fairly small sample. Its hard to explain exactly why but the turn insta-jam screams nuts to me. I think this would be a very unusual line with a bluff or semibluff from this type of player and we can't discount any nutted hands because we didn't bet flop



      Thats it from me folks. Have fun and Adios!
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Originally posted by fusionpk
      If I think he can fold a Q I like b/b/shove yeah.
      I forgot to update the thread that I discussed this hand with a friend and we came to a similar conclusion. If we bet turn medium sized intending a call (or even bet small to force his stronger hands to raise) we can really profitably jam river vs this guy.

      I also made an error with counting the hand combos in my analysis :D Still not good at looking at my own hands haha.


      In regards to the preflop 3bet, not sure how much difference it makes, but I've recently got slightly hooked on the idea of defending my preflop calling range and have been keeping AJ and AT in there. I 3bet AQ+ and added this hand in to the 3bet range to keep the frequency up. (part of the defending my calling range includes calling 1/4 of my KK+ combos if BB is squeeze-happy. pretty fun adjustment imo)
    • fusionpk
      fusionpk
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.01.2010 Posts: 1,683
      Actually I agree with keeping them in your calling range vs most regs. But I think vs a guy with these stats you should instantly adjust vs him and be 3b'ing all the broadways TT+ when you are OOP. Particularly in SB.

      But vs your more aggro reg who is more 4b/foldy and f3b is higher, then I definitely agree keep your calling range a little stronger and 3b him more polarized :) .

      @ The hand we were talking about, thats exactly my point, if you bet a half pot(ish) size on the turn you can leverage a near pot shove OTR which makes his decision really difficult.
    • kennethjeu
      kennethjeu
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.08.2011 Posts: 621
      Anyone of you 2 guys mind me watching you play poker someday? :) could learn alot from such a session :)
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      I don't mind at all actually. My circle of poker friends is pretty small at the moment and although I have a couple who I can talk hands with, I don't really have any friends who I regularly sweat or Vice-versa.

      What level do you play at the moment kenneth?
    • kennethjeu
      kennethjeu
      Bronze
      Joined: 28.08.2011 Posts: 621
      The NL10's :) can add me on skype, same nick as this one :) will catch you later ;)
    • w34z3l
      w34z3l
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 03.08.2009 Posts: 13,297
      nice graph, gl
    • SherlockHolmes2ez
      SherlockHolmes2ez
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.03.2012 Posts: 334
      Originally posted by DaPhunk
      50 Days, 100k hands! 10bb+ ev winrate?

      I see there is a new challenge forum here. I was recently inspired by this thread:
      2p2 NL500 mini Challenge thread (apologies if I'm not supposed to link to 2p2) and would like to start of this forum with a micro-stakes version of quoted Challenge. I'm now playing NL25 and NL50 as my main games and thus to drop down in limits this challenge will be done on NL10.

      I will use the experience to try and learn 4-6 table focus while playing 6-9 tables (or more), improve my ranges in some spots (vs 3bets, raising vs cbets, C/C vs riverbets, improving BB winrate?) and most importantly i'll be enjoying my time splashing around at the tables.

      My Alltime stars NL10 graph:



      My graph with showdown lines:



      I'll be starting my "NL10 play on the side" on Thursday. I'll try to post hands played per session and post a graph once per week minimum. Hope you all enjoy.
      Nice graph there and good luck, crush them all!
    • nabokow
      nabokow
      Bronze
      Joined: 23.01.2008 Posts: 165
      will be following this!
      If I may ask, what is your NL25/50 winrate?
      I am playing NL10 atm, so I am curious what winrate you can get here :)
      how many tables are you going to play at NL10?
    • DaPhunk
      DaPhunk
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.03.2008 Posts: 2,805
      Thanks guys for the supportage!



      Going to change my game-plan for playing on the BB somewhat and make it a bit more similar to my SB style.



      The big dip you see must have been when I was going a bit too far on the aggression limb and seemed to just be getting rebluffed almost 100% and having to fold. Bizarrely when I stopped making quite so many bluffs and semi-bluff moves my non-sd's settled down completely:

      [Spoiler]
      [/spoiler]

      Answers to questions:

      Regarding my NL25 and 50 stars winrates, I've only played 35k NL25 on stars so far so I can't really say. My aiev is only at $200 after that time but things have been super swingy for me (and perhaps I'll be at $0 tomorrow, you know how it goes :f_p: )

      Stars NL50 I've played even less hands (under 1k hands) because I've basically been table-selecting for it very hard and playing just on just one at the same time as 4 or 5 NL25 tables.

      My plan was to play up to 9 NL10 tables. So far the downswing in my graph happened when I did this and when I cut back to 6 again things started going normally again. I suppose I will have to try and add 1 table at a time and see how things go.
    • booomm
      booomm
      Bronze
      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 677
      [quote]Originally posted by DaPhunk
      Thanks guys for the supportage!



      Going to change my game-plan for playing on the BB somewhat and make it a bit more similar to my SB style.



      The big dip you see must have been when I was going a bit too far on the aggression limb and seemed to just be getting rebluffed almost 100% and having to fold. Bizarrely when I stopped making quite so many bluffs and semi-bluff moves my non-sd's settled down completely:

      [Spoiler]
      [/spoiler]

      Answers to questions:

      Regarding my NL25 and 50 stars winrates, I've only played 35k NL25 on stars so far so I can't really say. My aiev is only at $200 after that time but things have been super swingy for me (and perhaps I'll be at $0 tomorrow, you know how it goes :f_p: )

      Stars NL50 I've played even less hands (under 1k hands) because I've basically been table-selecting for it very hard and playing just on just one at the same time as 4 or 5 NL25 tables.

      My plan was to play up to 9 NL10 tables. So far the downswing in my graph happened when I did this and when I cut back to 6 again things started going normally again. I suppose I will have to try and add 1 table at a time and see how things go.[/quote]you are losing too much from bb, but sample is tiny tbh to make any conclusions or to consider any adjustments. but generally you should 3bet and barrel more with your bluffs/semi bluffs, and flat 2x open raises from the button wider. because even though the sample is tiny, but -56bb/100 is really high, you have to keep a balance between your sb and bb 3bet too.

      good luck with your challenge, will be following :)