All In All JJ

    • Stafinjsh
      Joined: 26.08.2008 Posts: 82
      Hello my frends,
      im relativly new to poker, i know this game for about 2 years and played it since that time to time, and now 2-3 weeks im trying to improve my skills as mutch as i can!

      IT Is The SSS

      So this topic is about the starting hand JJ so i have read and i think understood all the matherials on this site about SSS, and this strategy has all in all no lacks (only bad luck, or bad understanding of it OR NOT PLAYING BY ITS RULES), as far as i can see from now, but there is one starting hand that gives me no peace!!!

      In my opinion when playing FR No limit, it is totaly over powered (dont know how to say it correctly, by the way sorry for my bad english!), ok i havent played tons of hands but it is a lot, (so im going to sum up all the incomes and loses in my poker career with the hand JJ, + I will post all of them :D :D :D ), So the SSS says that from any position you should raise it and you should do the same if there is one raise in front of you, I Agree with the reraise But in my opinion you should raise it only from starting MP2, because if you get a reraise against this hand Acording To the sss you should push it with the ratio 4:1 to witch i totaly disagree,

      So for example you are UTG and raise your JJ, You get a reraise, so all in all if you havet been involved in the game at this table before and raised your capital at this table in all cases you will push the hand, (AA, KK, QQ,)=> 100% Are the hads witch you have to be afraid of + the posible Hand With Good Odss like AK, AQ, KQ, ((KQ)is a Special situation in my eyes).
      SO If someone reraises you in 90% he has a strong good hand and will call your push. And in more than 50 % you will loose With your JJ. BY THE WAY DONT FORGET THAT ALL YOU REED HERE IS WRITTEN BY AN AMATEUR WHO IS PLAYING NL CASH ONLY FOR 2-3 WEEKS!!!!
      So to make my opinion even more obiusly think of it, when you raise JJ from UTG if you face a reraise from a SSS it is almost always a stronger hand, And if it is BSS i would give that in 75% it is a stronger hand....
      + you Have only 12% to improve your hand to the flop, and 20% to the whole board, AK, AQ, And even KQ (By the way if someone is so stupid to reraise with KQ, he will defineatly call your push) Have 48% to get you killed from preflop to flop, and 80% from preflot to river.... yes of course you dont need to improve your hand if your oponent misses the board, but there are only 20% that he wont hit the flop....
      If Vilian has AA KK QQ you are screved any way....
      SO this is my too days general thought, witch yust dont let me go.....
      dont know mb gad too mutch badbeats with JJ or yust played them badly....
      But From now on im playing JJ only from MP + if some one reraises me i only will push with the ratio not higher than 3:1 (Especealy if i change my mind and raise them from UTG) + If Someone raises before me i think ill always Push this hand and not reraise...

      O i have a Question About this hand open:
      What to do in a situation like this?
      Hero is mp1,2,3(one of them)
      there is a limp from one of the UTG, Hero raises, CO,SS,BB (one of Them) RE-raises UTG Re-Re-raises... HERO????

      P.s I Had some more issues with this hand but just dont remember them right now, so will add them in some time, just like the summ of JJ in $, and all the JJ Hands....

      P.s.2 So please dont end this post :)

      P.s.3 And I Will Be Very, vėry, very happy to all replies to this post by every body!!!!
  • 6 replies
    • TribunCaesar
      Joined: 29.04.2007 Posts: 13,264
      I moved the thread to the right forum. I will read it tomorrow. It's already a bit late. ;)
    • fun101rockets
      Joined: 01.06.2008 Posts: 1,162
      [x] posted right after Tribun.
    • Stafinjsh
      Joined: 26.08.2008 Posts: 82
      could some one add his thoughts on my post please, im realy interesed in your opinions!!! :)
    • Gerv
      Joined: 07.05.2008 Posts: 17,678
      I personally have split the '''Between 4:1 and 2.5:1'' ratio chart.

      With a ratio of 3.3;1++ I am going to push with QQ+ & AK
      between 3.3:1 and lower I am also going to push with TT+ and AQ+

      As a side note, I am Gold so I can utilize the Reraise Ranges with Stats.

      Jacks is quite difficult to play and so is TT. I also agree that the most favourable matchup is up against a 55/45 situation which is against AK/AQ

      However basic SSS is designed for microlimits and thus People are reraising you more with Medium Pocketpairs or KJs which gives Jacks a percentual advantage of 70/30 against KJ and 87/13 against a Medium PP.

      To answer your question at the end of your post:
      Hero is mp1,2,3(one of them)
      there is a limp from one of the UTG, Hero raises, CO,SS,BB (one of Them) RE-raises UTG Re-Re-raises... HERO????
      Hero folds because with JJ there is no chance in hell you get 33% equity (3-way pot). Mostly you are up against 2 overcards en an overpair. Well if the overpair is P9, then you are the favourable to win but against Unknown and my own experiences with Limp/raises UTG. I think your Jacks are beat.


      Known players:

      0,1/0,25 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J:spade: , J:heart:
      2 folds, MP1 calls $0,25, MP2 folds, Hero raises to $1,25, 3 folds, BB calls $1,00, MP1 raises to $5,00, Hero raises to $4,50 (All-In), BB calls $3,75.

      Flop: ($14,60) 5:spade: , 9:heart: , 6:spade: (2 players)
      BB checks, MP1 bets $8,00, BB raises to $8,00 (All-In).

      Turn: ($30,60) K:club:
      River: ($30,60) 7:diamond:

      Final Pot: $30,60

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows a pair of jacks (Js Jh)
      BB shows high card ace with king kicker (Ad Qs)
      MP1 shows three of a kind, kings (Kh Ks)

      MP1 wins with three of a kind, kings (Kh Ks)

      Mp1's PFR was 2% but his VPIP is 30 so quite a loosepassive guy preflop. I played this hand without stats so you know why I 4-betted with Jacks.

      as BB coldcalled, I put him on eiter KK+ or a marginal hand.

      With jacks you want to be headsup otherwise it loses its Value ;)

      Hope this makes sense

      - Gerv
    • JonatanW
      Joined: 14.03.2008 Posts: 71
      Lets say you got JJ and sitting on 20BB, you make your 4BB raise from UTG+1 and somebody re-raises. That means you have to pay another 16BB to win 40BB which means you need to win 40% or more of every time you make this play. If you put villain on AK,JJ+ you got about 36% equity, which is a little bit less than what you actually need. However I would say that on lower limits people tend to be looser than AK, JJ+. Maybe they would play something like AQ+,TT+ then all of a sudden you have 47% equity which makes the play profitable. However on high limits where you use stats you can choose to fold against tight players.

      Limp + 4-bet usually means a monster hand played slow. I would fold JJ straight away in this situation. Say you are sitting on MP3, UTG limps, you raise, BB 3-bets and MP3 4-bets. Lets look at the hand ranges on all of these players:

      BB: AQ+,JJ+
      UTG: AK,QQ+

      With your JJ you only have about 20% equity, meaning you will only win 20% of the time. If both players call your all in you will need 25% equity in order for the play to be profitable. 16BB / 64BB = 25%. And there is no guarantee that both players will call your push (but its probable).

      Numbers should be alright, but its late and all so you never know :)
    • Stafinjsh
      Joined: 26.08.2008 Posts: 82
      Now What can i say its a realy tricky hand and needs to be played very accuratly....

      Summed up and my winnings and loosings with JJ are about +1,9% so it seems to be ok what the sss tells...