run it twice?

    • muel294
      muel294
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      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      Any point in running it more than once? If so in what situations? I shouldn't change anything expect for the rate at which you feel variance.

      i.e if we get AA in vs KK whether we run it once or twice doesn't matter does it ? We should still be a 4:1 favourite unless we improve or our opponent improves on the 1st run, therefore changing the number of cards left in the deck to draw to, therefore changing our equities on subsequent runs.
  • 32 replies
    • Alan883
      Alan883
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      Joined: 03.12.2008 Posts: 1,941
      As i understand EV is the same if you run it twice or not. Run it twice just reduces variance. And even if it reduces variance i doubt it reduces tilt :f_cool:
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Don't see much point to run it once tbh. Why pass up on free variance reduction.
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
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      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,038
      Run it once and don't give up your edge vs weaker players. <c> Manu :f_cool:
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      RIT doesn't give up edge tho
    • MrMardyBum
      MrMardyBum
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      Joined: 14.03.2009 Posts: 2,206
      Originally posted by Rihard4a
      Run it once and don't give up your edge vs weaker players. <c> Manu :f_cool:
      Changed my perspective.
    • Gadgaard
      Gadgaard
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      Joined: 25.06.2012 Posts: 124
      Depends on how comfortable you are with tilt, and what tilts you. I personally have no problem in being badbeated. however if i run it twice and he beats me both times as an 10% favorite it might get me tilted a bit :f_p:
    • muel294
      muel294
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      Joined: 06.06.2009 Posts: 1,207
      cheers I'm not too bother running it once. I have seemed to manage thus far okay.

      Originally posted by Rihard4a
      Run it once and don't give up your edge vs weaker players. <c> Manu :f_cool:
      I particularly like this mindset. PS Rihard4a - I don't always play 4b pots, but when I do they're against you and I play them badly ;P
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
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      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,038
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      RIT doesn't give up edge tho
      You do give up some edge when you RIT. :)
    • booomm
      booomm
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      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 677
      Originally posted by Rihard4a
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      RIT doesn't give up edge tho
      You do give up some edge when you RIT. :)
      I can't see how reducing variance can reduce your edge.
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
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      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,038
      Originally posted by booomm
      Originally posted by Rihard4a
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      RIT doesn't give up edge tho
      You do give up some edge when you RIT. :)
      I can't see how reducing variance can reduce your edge.
      Stating that you use it for purpose of reducing variance is just a weak players excuse. How can you reduce something that is random?
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      Now you're just spouting nonsense
    • booomm
      booomm
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      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 677
      Originally posted by Rihard4a
      Originally posted by booomm
      Originally posted by Rihard4a
      Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
      RIT doesn't give up edge tho
      You do give up some edge when you RIT. :)
      I can't see how reducing variance can reduce your edge.
      Stating that you use it for purpose of reducing variance is just a weak players excuse. How can you reduce something that is random?
      I don't think you understand what 'variance' means, variance is how far a given result deviates from the average. I'll give you an extreme exemple to explain. Now let's assume you are playing HU and go allin on the flop and you have 4 outs, and you decide to run the whole deck, 44 cards left, for the sake of simplicity we assume we won't burn any cards, so 22 turn and rivers left, and since we are running the whole deck, you will hit your 4 outs no matter what and take a percentage of the pot, wich is the same as the equity you had on the flop. whereas, if you run it once and you hit one of your 4 outs and suck out on the poor guy, you take the whole pot, wich would result on much higher swings.
      I hope that it is clear now that stating "RIT reduces your edge" is just an ignorance of basic math.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
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      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      The only purpose to run it more than once is to reduce short term swings. Why does short term matter? Think of it as part of the big picture.
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
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      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      Originally posted by booomm
      stating "RIT reduces your edge" is just an ignorance of basic math.
      You need to know your edge is not one mathematical thing only, it's a combination of several factors, most of which are hard to represent mathematically.
    • NightFrostaSS
      NightFrostaSS
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      Joined: 25.10.2008 Posts: 5,255
      I could see how RIO would be superior if you played regular table and knew someone is prone to tilt after losing a stack. But I do think you underestimate other regs by thinking they can't handle swings well. And if someone is prone to tilt after getting sucked out once, then getting sucked out twice in same pot should tilt him even more. In which case it roughly evens out imo.

      Now in zoom I can't see how RIO could do anything good for you. If you suck out on someone the large player pool combined with hand distribution makes it very very unlikely that you could possibly take advantage of someone steaming.

      If someone knows that you RIT they may get in lighter if they are somewhat scared money and make emotional decisions which is likely a good thing too.

      Overall I don't think it's as clear cut if you gain something or not edge wise from RIO or RIT. And even in high stakes regulars do disagree regarding this matter.

      But since it's a fact RIT reduces swings and only a guess that RIO gives you more edge I choose to go with facts .

      Reducing short term swings isn't unprofessional when something nearing long term is 500k+ hands. And claiming it's just weak players excuse is just lol.

      Most of the post addressed to Rihard4a btw. W Manu let's agree to disagree. :f_biggrin:
    • EmanuelC16
      EmanuelC16
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      Joined: 02.01.2010 Posts: 13,897
      LOL :s_biggrin:
    • booomm
      booomm
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      Joined: 22.03.2011 Posts: 677
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Originally posted by booomm
      stating "RIT reduces your edge" is just an ignorance of basic math.
      You need to know your edge is not one mathematical thing only, it's a combination of several factors, most of which are hard to represent mathematically.
      yeah agree totally, when I said ignorance of basic math, I was talking about RIT and not skill edge.
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
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      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,038
      Facts the you state are the so called delusions.

      Okay do a mathematical calculation on flipping a coin, do you think that if you RIT on a coin flip, it will reduce the variance either hitting A or B? :s_biggrin:
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
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      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,038
      Originally posted by booomm
      Originally posted by EmanuelC16
      Originally posted by booomm
      stating "RIT reduces your edge" is just an ignorance of basic math.
      You need to know your edge is not one mathematical thing only, it's a combination of several factors, most of which are hard to represent mathematically.
      yeah agree totally, when I said ignorance of basic math, I was talking about RIT and not skill edge.
      When you RIT you just reduce the advantage of your edge. :) You give someone 2 bullets to shoot you instead of one. :f_biggrin:
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