[Closed] FR .05/.10 A9s - pot odds for a backdoor flush draw?

Hero calls for his A-outs and backdoor flush draw.

You also have a few outs for your A

I would call here aswell, but then fold on the turn if the 2nd ♦ doesn't come.

When I thought about this after playing I was thinking worse case scenario BB has hit a set with the queen, so I had 8 clean outs. I never considered the outs for the A. I am assuming then that with so many limpers and callers preflop there is a good chance that a pair of aces would be good a lot of the time?

Ye it will be good sometimes.

But you say 8 outs? A backdoor flushdraw is a lot less than that

Originally posted by Yoghi
Ye it will be good sometimes.

But you say 8 outs? A backdoor flushdraw is a lot less than that

How so? Can I not include all diamonds, except those that pair the board?

Or should I be more conservative as to how many of my suit I consider to still be available to me?

I think perhaps I should go looking in the strategy section.

This is a backdoor flush draw, not a normal flushdraw.

If another ♦ comes on the turn you still don't have a flush do you?

I was thinking 8 outs for the flushdraw on the turn then 7 outs for the flush on the river, so I would have to look at my pot odds again on the turn.

pot odds on flop 13:1, outs 39:8 = a little better than 5:1
pot odds on turn 7:1(maybe 9:1 if BB bets and MP3 calls), outs 39:7 = a little worse than 6:1.

Am I thinking about this in completely the wrong way?

Though I think even with my thinking it's a close call, (in the long run), for the flush alone.

I'll start to consider my outs with the overcard(s) in future.

I'll learn one day.

I think you are, you should read this article first

http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/fixed-limit/173/

Thanks for the help and comments. I'll go do some more reading now.

If you think you still don't understand it after reading the article just ask more questions I just feel like that article can explain it better than me

Assuming I have 8 diamonds available to me I have a 27:1 chance of completing my flush.

I count my backdoor flushdraw as 1 out, (when I assume to have all diamonds available to me), on top of my outs with the A.

tbh I don't fully understand the math, (I'll leave that for later), but then I suppose I don't need to. All I need to do is apply it.

Thanks again.

Ye that's about right But if you have the nutflushdraw you can count 2 outs or something, since you have good implied odds.

Which part of the match don't you understand? It's always better to understand than to just apply it ^^

nothing to add i guess except: am i the only one who raises this preflop ?

Originally posted by Yoghi
Ye that's about right But if you have the nutflushdraw you can count 2 outs or something, since you have good implied odds.

Which part of the match don't you understand? It's always better to understand than to just apply it ^^

I understand now. My problem arose from thinking about each card to come as independant events, rather than as a sequence.

So if I flipped a coin and it landed heads I would say that my chances to flip another H is 1 in 2, which is true as the coin doesn't remember previous results.

However I want to know what the chances are of flipping two heads in a row, not the chances of flipping a H after I have already got one. So I want to know the odds of flipping HH before the first flip.

My possibilites are TH, TT, HT, HH. HH = 1 in 4

Before I was thinking H or T H = 1 in 2.
If H then -> HT, HH. HH is 1 in 2.
So I would call the 1 in 2 shot then call again if hit H.
Really the first call should be based on a 1 in 4 shot.

@frzl would you raise the callers or 3bet against the BB?

Yay you've got it ♦

It is about raising the limpers, I actually didn't look at it yet but I prefer to raise preflop aswell. Mostly limpers will not have a strong hand, and A9s should be better than their ranges. In addition you will mostly "buy" the button because the button will fold a lot more often now than he does when you limp which makes your hand easier to play postflop.

Thank you. And you're right it is much better to understand the maths rather than just apply it.