Would you be able to fold this?

    • daytripper84
      daytripper84
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.09.2008 Posts: 24
      Known players:   
      MP2:
      $2.69
      MP3:
      $1.80
      Hero:
      $5.00

      0.02/0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
      Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant 0.68 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

      Preflop: Hero is CO with 9:heart: , 9:club:
      MP2 calls $0.05, MP3 calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.25, 3 folds, MP2 calls $0.20, MP3 calls $0.20.

      Flop: ($0.82) K:club: , J:club: , Q:club: (3 players)
      MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks.

      Turn: ($0.82) 8:heart: (3 players)
      MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks.

      River: ($0.82) T:club: (3 players)
      MP2 bets $0.05, MP3 folds, Hero raises to $0.35, MP2 raises to $0.65, Hero raises to $1.20, MP2 raises to $1.75, Hero raises to $4.75 (All-In), MP2 calls $0.69 (All-In), Hero gets uncalled bet back.

      Final Pot: $5.70

      Results follow (highlight to see):
      Hero shows a straight flush, kings high (9h 9c)
      MP2 shows a royal flush (Ac 7s)

      MP2 wins with a royal flush (Ac 7s)


      So, do you think it would be possible to fold this hand? I was actually considering it when he did his reraises, but I had to see if he actually had his royal, lol. Just the way the hand played out...its sort of an interesting decision on whether or not it is foldable.

      Discuss.
  • 28 replies
    • andreibalint
      andreibalint
      Bronze
      Joined: 11.04.2009 Posts: 872
      Even if you are one rank above me i'll say my opinion... my opinion is it doesn't actually matter if you fold or not since you will get into this situation very very very (a lot of very) rarely. I think you played ok. Let's see the maths. You make a straight flush once every 72,193 hands so even if EVERY time when you make one you lose your entire stack (impossible) you're expected value is 100*100/72193= -0,13BB/100h
    • Reptile16
      Reptile16
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.04.2009 Posts: 26
      Put much quicker, the simple answer is no, no I wouldn't. I'd tend to put the guy on a lower club (maybe a pair or two pair) at the very best over a Royal Flush draw, especially as he checked the flop and turn.
    • Zheelvern
      Zheelvern
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2007 Posts: 704
      As played: Fold.
      What do you think that he's miniraising you all the time with 8 of clubs?
    • michaelqian
      michaelqian
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.05.2009 Posts: 512
      That 0.05 min-bet kinda indicates he has a royal flush, and with all those min raises it's kind of obvious.

      But no I wouldn't fold, I would happily pay that amount to see a royal flush.

      Also as said above it doesn't matter, you don't come across this situation an awful lot anyway.
    • Cpwpoker
      Cpwpoker
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.06.2009 Posts: 706
      I'm noob.

      I would have raised at the flop as i was the pre-flop raiser if someone reraise would have fold so i don't think i would have arrived to the river to get the straight flush.

      But if i get to the river i don't think i would have fold.
    • Sai7
      Sai7
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.02.2008 Posts: 135
      you wanna fold this on NL5? that's the :f_p: play ever
      I'd probably see people min raise with Ax with no club..
    • Zheelvern
      Zheelvern
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2007 Posts: 704
      Originally posted by Cpwpoker
      I'm noob.

      I would have raised at the flop as i was the pre-flop raiser if someone reraise would have fold so i don't think i would have arrived to the river to get the straight flush.

      But if i get to the river i don't think i would have fold.
      This.
      You aren't noob.
    • Zheelvern
      Zheelvern
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2007 Posts: 704
      Originally posted by Sai7
      you wanna fold this on NL5? that's the :f_p: play ever
      I'd probably see people min raise with Ax with no club..
      Sure, sure. What can he beat there up to the river? I see no hand that he's better against. Play passive - lose your stack. Easy game.
    • daytripper84
      daytripper84
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.09.2008 Posts: 24
      Yeah, well there was no way I was doing a cont bet with a board like that, esp against 2 opponents post flop. I know it was very likely with all the min bets that he DID have a royal, but, like the others said, I'd pay to see that lol. esp. on these limits. So a fold is possible here; although as mentioned, on these limits, paying a small amount to see the royal is worthwhile :D
    • Zheelvern
      Zheelvern
      Bronze
      Joined: 29.10.2007 Posts: 704
      Originally posted by daytripper84
      Yeah, well there was no way I was doing a cont bet with a board like that, esp against 2 opponents post flop.
      Then fold. You can beat nothing on that flop and that turn.
    • jenoc
      jenoc
      Bronze
      Joined: 06.04.2008 Posts: 510
      Well, if we are so sure that he has royal, but want to be sure do he really really has it- why not just call after his minreraise? Do he really would minreraise with weaker flush? It's NL5 and there will be loads of situations where you can stack him with teh real nutz not being worried about a thing at all
    • kingdippy2008
      kingdippy2008
      Bronze
      Joined: 30.08.2008 Posts: 2,107
      In my opinion on NL5 you cant cbet this flop. Multi way vs 3 opponents on an EXTREMELY draw heavy board. Boards like K :spade: 8 :club: 3 :heart: are good to cbet multiway in Position. So i like the check on the flop and turn. I think he can min-donk any club here. Min bets can have such a wide range, there not always the nuts.

      Even though he min reraises, im never folding a straight flush on NL5 and actually on any limit. Its worth a stack imo to say you have been beaten by a royal flush ^^. Just my opinion though :D

      So imo nh.

      -Jack
    • JuiceQuadre
      JuiceQuadre
      Bronze
      Joined: 05.10.2008 Posts: 2,688
      Hmmm.. I know its NL5.. But i doubt he is ever raising with weaker flush..

      You all say you cant fold straight flush.. Cool.. But in this example it doesnt really matter if you got straight flush or not, since there is only one higher flush possible and thats stronger straight flush.
      There is no quads or FH, so its only flush vs flush, cool you have straigh flush, but there are only weaker flushes, which you would beat anyway with ur 9high.

      Im not saying im folding there on NL5, but its foldable imho =) , or just call his second minraise..
    • budzior
      budzior
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      Joined: 26.02.2009 Posts: 1,152
      You cant fold this but only call his raise on the river.
    • AquamanBT
      AquamanBT
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.07.2008 Posts: 338
      Originally posted by budzior
      You cant fold this but only call his raise on the river.
      Exactly.
    • OrcaAoc
      OrcaAoc
      Gold
      Joined: 06.08.2006 Posts: 4,818
      True the bad part isnt the call, it is the last of your raises thats really bad.
    • mafaz
      mafaz
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.12.2007 Posts: 222
      @ daytripper84

      Never post an outcome of the hand in here if you want to get an answer. Cause there is a load of smartass'es who like to pretend they are best poker players ever and are so damn smart when they see the outcome so you wont get a normal answer from them. Of course they would fold.
    • daytripper84
      daytripper84
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.09.2008 Posts: 24
      Yeah...I didn't want to turn this into a hand judging session really...there are other forums for that. I just figured it was a pretty interesting hand to show, and yes, I probably should have just called on the river, and made a mistake by stacking him, but, win or lose, it was a very intriguing hand to see.

      Another thing is since it is NL5, with a hand like this, I don't take it as seriously if say it was NL200. And as Kingdippy mentioned, I agree that it was worthwhile to be able to say my straight flush was once beaten by a Royal :s_biggrin:
    • Sai7
      Sai7
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.02.2008 Posts: 135
      Originally posted by Zheelvern
      Originally posted by Sai7
      you wanna fold this on NL5? that's the :f_p: play ever
      I'd probably see people min raise with Ax with no club..
      Sure, sure. What can he beat there up to the river? I see no hand that he's better against. Play passive - lose your stack. Easy game.
      learn to read
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