is the Nash Equilibrium Chart too loose? (heads up)

    • Leito99
      Leito99
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.07.2009 Posts: 754
      i started using it and i get the money in as an underdog too much i think....
      is it still ok because of the amount i steal?

      for example it says call all in when heads up with 33 for 20bb
      this means that when blinds are 50/100 and i have 2000chips i should call all in....but isnt this kinda stupid cuz your either a big underdog or flipping??
      aslo calling all in with A2 suited for 20bb i dont like...or A5 offsuit

      is the chart done through some big calculations that prove that this is best?
      any opinions?
  • 8 replies
    • wasy8
      wasy8
      Black
      Joined: 29.01.2009 Posts: 1,507
      the chart is based on the assumption that villain is pushing according to the nash equilibrium chart as well. your use of the chart should only be a guideline - and at micro/low stakes, the majority of the opponents heads up are not using this chart.

      if youre opponent is shoving tighter than the chart (which is usually the case) then you call tighter...and if he is calling tighter, shove looser.

      hope this helps :s_biggrin:
    • Leito99
      Leito99
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.07.2009 Posts: 754
      it helps even though it seems obvious...

      and ye most opponents are tighter than the chart...

      but its a bit frustrating when i often have to suckout to win when they call but i guess long term results will be in my favour...
    • noclaninator
      noclaninator
      Bronze
      Joined: 01.12.2008 Posts: 312
      Yea, shove the nash range but call tight.
    • nibbana
      nibbana
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.12.2009 Posts: 1,186
      The shoving range is alright but the calling range is way too loose for your average opponent. I don't think that using a static strategy is anywhere near optimal though, it's a great starting point given the amount of effort/maths that's gone into developing it but as intimated in previous posts, you really need to be adapting to specific opponents.
    • NickParkes
      NickParkes
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.07.2008 Posts: 1,526
      The shoving range is based on an equilibrium model and so will result in you breaking even at worst... it is a good guide, but don't use it from 20BBs... some use it at <12, some at <8, some just use it as a guide and then adjust to opponents... it can create a lot of variance in the end game, so don't get discouraged if you seem to always be behind... it does eventually balance...

      The calling chart is based on the assumption that villain is pushing according to the pushing chart, so never use it! again it is a good guide as to the relative strength of hands but defo call waaaay tighter than it... I like to put villain on a shoving range, look at effective stacks and see maybe 7BB, and then compare to the calling chart and decide if it works...

      Hope this helps...
    • Hahaownedlolz
      Hahaownedlolz
      Bronze
      Joined: 24.04.2009 Posts: 1,755
      i assume both of you have 2000 chips. Then no i wouldn't go all in with 33 or A2. If the players is tight/good he probably has you crushed.

      However in Heads up sng's i play the players more then i play the cards. If the players is tight i will steal and push more. If he's loose and bets alot, tries to steal alot. Then i will try to trap him, or catch him on a bluff and reraise it with air myself. So it really depends on what type of player your playing against.


      But personally if the stacks are about equal, and you still have plenty BB's i won't push or call with 33. It's a coinflip at best, and i came to play poker. Not to win by getting lucky. I don't see a reason to do coinflips unless you have 75% of the chips or 25% (are behind alot or are far ahead).

      I suggest just using it as a guideline instead of something you should always do. Personally i just trust my instinct, use my experience i've gotten so far, the cards and my reads on that person. I apply the strategies i've read on this site, but it's never good to follow hand charts blindly if you ask me.
    • Luupainaja
      Luupainaja
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.03.2010 Posts: 1,148
      I have a question. Are those effective stack sizes (in bb) in Nash charts given before or after subtracting the already paid blinds?
    • NickParkes
      NickParkes
      Bronze
      Joined: 07.07.2008 Posts: 1,526
      Originally posted by Luupainaja
      I have a question. Are those effective stack sizes (in bb) in Nash charts given before or after subtracting the already paid blinds?
      Calculate the effective stacks before the blind is paid.