READ - HELP. What stats do i fail on?

    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 1,148


      Alright so I suck and i know it, i'm looking to fix some leaks and wondering where in my stats i'm going wrong.
      Pleaseeeee help me <3
      I think i may be playing too loose but i'm not sure where i'm going wrong in playing loose.
      THANKS GUIZE :s_love:

      p.s. I'm playing 6max NL25
  • 13 replies
    • Fongie
      Fongie
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 4,978
      It looks like youre playing too many hands without being good enough to do so. The gap 28-22 is large, and it looks like you may be calling too much on the BB oop (unless youre 3betting, but it doesnt look that way).

      You have a low WTSD and a low W$SD. The only way you would be winning with these combined stats, is if you are a very aggressive non-sd oriented player (making all your money with non-showdown winnings). I would guess however, looking at your "fold to X bet", that you're probably not doing this either because you fold a lot.

      It's hard to say any specifics of where your leaks are exactly, but it looks like you definately need to improve your postflop play a lot. The preflop stats arent optimal either, but with the WTSD to W$SD ratio combined with your passive looking other stats, it looks like youre folding in the wrong spots and calling in the wrong spots too.

      Good luck ;)
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 1,148
      /crys

      Thanks for the feedback :)

      Originally posted by Fongie
      and it looks like you may be calling too much on the BB oop (unless youre 3betting, but it doesnt look that way).
      ^ i hardly ever call out of the BB. I call in the small blind sometimes.

      This is my graph:



      So i should tighten up you think?
    • Fongie
      Fongie
      Bronze
      Joined: 02.12.2006 Posts: 4,978
      Honestly, I dont think I have seen anyone before with level non-sd and sd wins, and both going down! Can't give any advice based on that graph alone, you need to post hands watch videos (get a coach? :P ), the usual stuff, to improve your game. You should probably tighten up though, yes, but of course its about tightening up in the right spots and that requires more than just stats to pinpoint.
    • vaidag
      vaidag
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.04.2010 Posts: 35
      try to read harrington's on cash games both volumes it helped me alot
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 1,148
      i've just had a friend over who also grinds NL25 and he has stated some things on my game i need to adjust.

      I call / raise to much with suited connectors/1gappers.
      I raise too loose UTG with suited connectors / hands not strong enough and don't lay down enough OOP vs tags who 3b on the button.

      I'll post my graph after a couple of sessions to see if anything changes :D ! which hopefully it will.
    • Shevtshenko
      Shevtshenko
      Silver
      Joined: 06.12.2009 Posts: 4,103
      Would be nice to know your AF and AFq. Raise flop cbet and r turn cbet. If you are flatting a ton of stuff IP vs. utg/mp openers you should be putting pressure on those guys with fd's, str8 draws. Start playing those aggressively and see on which board textures it works on and then add to your raising range gutshots, bdfd's, bottompairs ets.

      Seeing your stats, I guess that you flat and try to get cheaply to showdown a bit too often with weak holdings. Hence you're folding very often on river. Turn your made hands into bluffs on turn and river more often when villains are vbetting thin or when board textures are good for it. That way you'll get your w$wsf stat slightly over 50% and voilá we have a new winning player on nl25.
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 1,148
      Originally posted by Shevtshenko
      Would be nice to know your AF and AFq. Raise flop cbet and r turn cbet. If you are flatting a ton of stuff IP vs. utg/mp openers you should be putting pressure on those guys with fd's, str8 draws. Start playing those aggressively and see on which board textures it works on and then add to your raising range gutshots, bdfd's, bottompairs ets.

      Seeing your stats, I guess that you flat and try to get cheaply to showdown a bit too often with weak holdings. Hence you're folding very often on river. Turn your made hands into bluffs on turn and river more often when villains are vbetting thin or when board textures are good for it. That way you'll get your w$wsf stat slightly over 50% and voilá we have a new winning player on nl25.
      Thanks for the input man, i'll definately try this. :D as i said, i'll post my graph in a couple of days. THANKS GUYZ :f_love:
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 1,148
      Okay guys I've put some serious grinding into it, become tighter and made better laydowns when i know i'm beat.
      Tell me if i've improved or what i need to improve on still, anything! Thank you



    • Bierbaer
      Bierbaer
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.05.2005 Posts: 7,989
      As always looking at the stats only gets you so far, it's always hard to tell where exactly you make your mistakes, but I just had a look at it so here are a few things I noticed:
      - VPIP in SB is too high imo. I don't have this stat in Holdem Manager (or maybe I can just not find it), but 21% seems pretty high.
      - fold BB to steal seems a bit on the low side, this is not necessarily bad but since the SB-VPIP also seems a bit high maybe you play OOP more than you have to (i.e. more than you should).


      Maybe I overlooked it, but the cbet% would be interesting as well as the 2nd-barrel%.
    • Chenghao
      Chenghao
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.10.2009 Posts: 274
      your ATS is a bit on the high side , it will be prone to resteals by people who watch out for them. - pick your targets carefully and abuse until they adjust

      your aggression factor is off the charts too ( all above 3), maybe you would like to play passively at times , aggression is good as you can have the best hand , builds the pot and can make a better hand fold. there are times where passive play is good too.

      your check raise on the flop after a preflop raise is like 10 out of 9063
      very rarely?

      according to ryan fee's 6max guide
      http://www.gamblingsystem.biz/books/2p2NL6max.pdf


      page 21 of the guide :

      Check-Raising
      Let's now focus on the flop check-raise. For the most part you have probably already
      cultivated an aggressive image by 3-betting your opponents, so lets suppose you slow it down
      and cold call preflop. For the most part when we check raise it will mean that we have
      defended our blinds. Lets look at c/r situations: (For these situations lets assume we're up
      against a LP TAG opener who plays somewhere between 23/18 and 20/15.
      23/18 and 20/15.
      Say we flat call with something like 33 from a CO open. The flop comes T53r. This is not a
      good spot to check raise unless one of the following two conditions are met:

      ● You have a reason to believe that the villain is bad and spewy and will always put in
      way too much money with a TP or overpair type hand, especially if you play your hand
      fast.

      ● You have a history of check-raising dry boards against a decent-good opponent and he
      has reason to believe you are doing it with air frequently, so we c/r with a monster to
      balance our range.

      Both of these scenario's require us to have some sort of read or note on an opponent, so lets
      assume we are just vaguely familiar with how he plays and we have his stats. You want to
      avoid check-raising these spots with strong hands because you are polarizing your range
      between air/sets and it will be difficult to get paid. Since we probably will peel (check/call) a
      21
      hand like AT or 88 (pending history, as you build history you could c/r something like TP on
      this board for value) we want to simply c/c our entire range (of course not bluffs, it's probably
      a good idea to fire away a c/r with something like QJss on this board because you have
      backdoor straight draws, potentially a backdoor flush draw, and two overcards.
      It's a good idea to go after your opponents without history in these spots because they will
      have to be very spewy to continue with most of their cbetting range and worst case scenario
      you develop an image that you like to c/r bluff which we can later exploit by c/ring with big
      hands). Anyway the point is when you flop a monster on a dry board start by check-calling,
      and go from there.
      This was mentioned in example one but now lets say we have QJss or 76ss on T53r (one
      spade). Assume same type of villain. Tthis is a great check-raise spot because we have
      backdoor draws or a gutshot, and because our opponent will also have a tough time having a
      hand strong enough to continue with on this flop. Be more and more inclined to make these
      sort of bluff c/r's against players that cbet a lot, really anything greater than 70% and you can
      do it fairly often As their cbet % decreases so should your c/r frequency.
      History also plays a roll, if he gave up the first time do it again Put him to the test and make
      him adjust or just get run over. If he has seen you do it and is inclined to not give credit then
      change gears and just c/f and let him have it. Also you should see an increase in success of
      these types of plays in multiway pots.
      So say for example you have been really going after a guy preflop and decide not to squeeze
      so you overcall something like A5s. The flop comes 732r, you check, the PFR cbet, whoever
      called preflop comes along. You should c/r this spot, you have assumable backdoor flush
      outs, an overcard, and a gutshot. Not to mention a ton of fold equity, and it appears as though
      you must have a huge hand because you just c/r'd a particularly dry board into two players.
      The risk you run is the overcaller having a set on this board, however this is unlikely and in
      the event that he does we should have a little bit of equity (FWIW it's a c/r, fold to 3bet, we
      obviously don't want to put our money in with ace high and a gutshot).
      As far as bet sizes go, for the first scenario lets assume your opponent cbets 6bb's into 8bb's,
      you should c/r to 18bb's with everything. In the second scenario, lets say your opponent cbets
      8bb's into 10bb's, someone calls, you should c/r to 30bb's with your entire range (this is to
      keep it consistent and avoid giving away something on bet sizing). These are rough numbers,
      just keep it somewhere within this range and you should be fine.
      Now lets imagine we flop a made hand on a drawy board, say we have 87 or 55 on 965dd. In
      this situation we instead want to play our hand quickly and c/r (as discussed previously, big
      hands should be slow played on dry boards), but on boards with draws and texture we should
      opt to play our hands quickly. Our opponents will be far more inclined to play their 1 pair/big
      draw type hands fast to maximize fold equity, and since they have none and we are way
      ahead we want to get the money in now.
      These boards should on occasion also be c/r'd with draws, but keep in mind that depending
      upon the opponent you should likely weight your range towards made hand rather than draws
      as you will likely be getting money in behind/flipping most of the time, and there is likely a
      more optimal way to play your draw (FWIW big draws should likely be played for a c/r, for
      example 98dd on 762dd, whereas T9dd should be played for a c/c on 742dd [unless your
      22
      opponent folds to c/rs more than most, in which case exploit this by c/ring draws and stone
      bluffs, and probably c/c most big hands, unless you've really been going after him and you
      suspect he is sick of you]).
      anyway , you are performing below EV , your yellow line is way above your green line.

      if the results follow the decisions you make for allins , you would have been break even. This is variance and happens to the general population ( less the luck boxes).
    • Chenghao
      Chenghao
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.10.2009 Posts: 274
      there are at least 2 other things u can do to spot your own leaks

      1) i filter by the vs player tab , then i see to what sort of players i lose the most money to ( i lost the most to fishes ! )
      look at the players you lost the most to , if u can , classify them according to a general class like maniac , peeler , etc and see what you are losing the most $$ to.

      2) by hands ( most of leak plugging is done here)

      play with all the tabs

      filter each category and see how do with them

      suited connectors , pairs etc.

      fiter the 1 pair , 2 pairs too and see how u can better play those hands ( i am assuming most people's 3 of a kind and above is green )

      play around with it , think about a scenario and filter accordingly.

      for example : under the actions tab : tick the chance to steal.

      then look at your graph to see how much you earned by stealing.


      or maybe you can filter according to *facing : steal in (SB/BB) and you (3bet/call/fold)


      Granted you need a much larger sample size before you can see a representative leak but at least you can glance the start of your problems.
    • DecMate
      DecMate
      Bronze
      Joined: 25.01.2009 Posts: 1,148
      Originally posted by Chenghao
      there are at least 2 other things u can do to spot your own leaks

      1) i filter by the vs player tab , then i see to what sort of players i lose the most money to ( i lost the most to fishes ! )
      look at the players you lost the most to , if u can , classify them according to a general class like maniac , peeler , etc and see what you are losing the most $$ to.

      2) by hands ( most of leak plugging is done here)

      play with all the tabs

      filter each category and see how do with them

      suited connectors , pairs etc.

      fiter the 1 pair , 2 pairs too and see how u can better play those hands ( i am assuming most people's 3 of a kind and above is green )

      play around with it , think about a scenario and filter accordingly.

      for example : under the actions tab : tick the chance to steal.

      then look at your graph to see how much you earned by stealing.


      or maybe you can filter according to *facing : steal in (SB/BB) and you (3bet/call/fold)


      Granted you need a much larger sample size before you can see a representative leak but at least you can glance the start of your problems.
      Thanks for the reply i'll definately look into this.
      I'm going to be posting a new graph soon, i have switched to NL25 fullring and playing tighter so should be good! i'll post once i have like 50k hands.
    • Chenghao
      Chenghao
      Bronze
      Joined: 04.10.2009 Posts: 274
      There are plenty of filtering you can do.
      You just need to know what you are looking out for i guess.

      e.g. i want to look at all the spots and hands where i never went to showdown

      : Filters :Misc : Results : tick went to showdown , add selected to filters , select went to showdown , then click the *not button * at the bottom

      Then look at the Vs player tab and look who do you lose it to often and think about what u can do about it.

      Deconstructing your opponents can prove to be useful when u meet these regs again.

      here are ancient posts but i think its nice to read through:

      credit to : http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4946669&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

      (moderator : pls advice is this link is allowed , remove it if it isn't)

      1. Do you have sufficient preflop aggression? To answer this question, open up your ring game statistics and go to the "position stats" page. For each position other than the small blind, divide the "PF Raise %" by the "Vol. Put $ In Pot." If you get a number smaller than 0.5, you're not aggressive enough out of that position. See, aggression is a relative term; it should be a function of your level of looseness. You can be a consistently winning player at SSNL with a VPIP of 12%, and you can be a consistently winning player at SSNL with a VPIP of 30%, but only if you are sufficiently aggressive. My general guideline is that you should raise at least half the hands you play, from every position on the table.

      2. Are you positionally aware? Positional awareness means that you understand Ed Miller's comment when he said:

      Quote:

      Total all the dollars you've ever bet playing poker. The large majority of those dollars should have been bet from late position. Only a small percentage of your total handle should have been bet from up front.



      To test this, go to the Position Stats and look down the list of VPIP from Button to UTG. You should see that VPIP steadily dropping the farther you get from the button. I'd love to see my button VPIP at double my UTG VPIP, but if my Button VPIP is at least 50% larger than my UTG VPIP, I'm happy with the situation.

      3. How's my stealing? To check on your performance when trying a blind steal, go to the General Info. tab. Where it says "Att. To Steal Blinds" I'd like to see that number at LEAST 20%. (Personally, I like mine to be over 30%, but I'm very aggressive in these situations. If you're trying to steal the blinds less than 20% of the time, you're leaving lots of money on the table.) Now click on "Filters..." and under "Chance to Steal Blinds" click "Chance to Steal & Raised." Select OK and look at the numbers. This shows every time you've tried to steal the blinds, and how the attempt turned out for you. Under "Totals" see the "BB/Hand" statistic. That shows your per-hand winrate on blind steals. If you multiply this number by 100, it should be at least double your "PTBB/100" average winrate. If it's much less than that and you have a decent sample size, you have a hole in your game when it comes to blind stealing. This should be an exceedingly profitable thing to do when you try it; if it's not, you need to work on your strategy.

      4. Defending the blinds. Click on "Turn Filter Off," and then click on "Filters..." again. Under "Blind Status" click on "Either Blind." Now under "Vol. Put $ In Pot" click on "Put Money In." This shows you if you're bleeding money out of the blinds. A "BB/Hand" of about -0.375 would indicate that you were no better off putting money into the pot than if you had folded. If your "BB/Hand" is larger than that, then you typically win back some of your blind money when you put money into the pot from the blinds. That's all you can really hope for. If you click on "Filters..." again and go under "Steal Attempted Against Your Blind" and click on "Steal Attempted." After you click "OK" you'll now see how you did when you chose to defend against a blind steal. Again, the magic number is for your "BB/Hand" to be bigger than -0.375; that means you're making back some of your blinds when you try to defend against a steal. If either of these numbers is lower than -0.375, you'd lose less money by always folding rather than doing what you're doing.

      5. Heads-up play. Click on “Turn Filter Off,” then click on “Filters…” again. Under “Hands With Between…Players Seeing The Flop” change the range from “0 to 10 players” to “2 to 2 players.” Hit “OK” and see what comes up. This shows you how you’ve done when you were heads-up preflop, but a flop was dealt. See how you’ve done in these situations. If things look OK, go back to “Filters…” and under “Pre-flop Raise” select “No Raise.” This will show you how you’ve done when you didn’t raise preflop, but the hand was heads-up on the flop (this includes pure limping and when someone ELSE raised preflop, but not when you were the preflop raiser). Is this number positive? If not, it could be an indicator that you have trouble when you are not the aggressor preflop, especially without padding in the pot.

      6. Multiway pots. Clear the filter and go back under filters. Change “Hands With Between…Players Seeing The Flop” to “3 to 10 players.” This shows you how you do in multiway pots. If things look good, go back and select “No Raise” under “Pre-flop Raise.” Is it still positive? If so, you’re selecting good times to play/limp multiway pots, and you’re playing them well postflop.

      7. Pocket pairs. Under “Filters…” change the “Type of Hole Cards” to “Pairs.” This will show you how you generally play and perform with pocket pairs. Your Total VPIP with these should be EXTREMELY high; unless you play at highly unusual tables, I’d be surprised to see this number below 85%. Pocket pairs make extremely powerful hands that are extremely well-hidden; if you’re not playing them almost all the time, you’re leaving money on the table. Also, your Total PFR% with these hands should be rather high -- at least 1/3 of your VPIP, if not 1/2. Some people have this number higher still, and I don’t have a problem with that, especially at short-handed tables. If you have enough hands, I’d expect every one of these lines to be positive, and reasonably significantly so. If you have any glaringly negative numbers, especially AA-88, it may indicate bad play. Look over individual hands where you lose lots of money and see if you played too timidly early in the hand, or if you went too far unimproved in the face of resistance. Also, look at the hands where you won to see if you played too timidly, or if you routinely forced weaker hands out when you should have been milking them for profits.

      8. Suited connectors. Under “Filters…” change “Type of Hole Cards” to “Suited Connectors.” I’m much less likely to play suited connectors than pocket pairs, but some people play them religiously. As a result, I don’t really have a good suggestion as to how high your VPIP or PFR should be. However, your BB/hand should be positive; if it’s not, you’re probably not playing your suited connectors well. Remember: these hands play best in a multiway, unraised pot, or as a steal move. In the “Filters…” change “Vol. Put $ In Pot” to “Cold-Called.” When you hit OK, you should have almost no entries to view. Of the times you cold-called, you should be able to come up with a specific explanation for why you did so in each and every one of them. Review the hand histories; if you can’t come up with a really good reason why you thought it better to cold-call, rather than raise or fold, you need to rethink your suited connector strategy. Good explanations: the raise was very small, villain is passive post-flop, I had position on villain, villain and I are both extremely deep-stacked, villain is incredibly aggressive preflop, my suited connectors are particularly strong, there are several cold-callers in front of me, etc. I’m not saying you shouldn’t ever cold-call with suited connectors; rather, I’m saying you shouldn’t AUTOMATICALLY do so. Your default play here should be to fold weak suited connectors and reraise strong ones.

      9. Unsuited connectors. Clear the filter and then go back into it. Change “Type of Hole Cards” to “Off-Suited Connectors.” Your VPIP for these hands should be noticeably smaller than your VPIP for suited connectors. Check your winrate and make sure it’s positive. Filter for cold-calling and see if you had good reasons for doing so, keeping in mind that the reasons need to be even stronger than for suited connectors.

      10. Postflop aggression. Clear the filter. Select the “More Detail…” button above the “Filters…” button. Scroll down. There is a section marked “First Action on Flop After A Pre-flop Raise.” This shows your likelihood of continuation betting. If you add Bet and Raise, the total should be at least 40%. If it’s not, you’re probably giving up too soon on your good hands, and that will cost you money in the long run. Remember: people who cold-call a preflop bet are often in fit-or-fold mode. If you don’t bet, you don’t give them a chance to fold. The pot is already decent-sized, and there’s no reason to give some donk a free look at a turn card that could sink you. If you raised preflop, you need a good reason NOT to raise the flop. Continuation betting should be your default play. Scroll down a bit farther to “Aggression Factor.” Your total aggression factor should be at LEAST 2. No-limit is not a game where you can call frequently and turn a profit. You should always be looking to see if you can raise or fold; only if you have a good reason why you CANNOT raise or fold should you call. As a result, calling should be an infrequent occurrence in your play, which gives you a large aggression factor.

      11. Check-raising. Some people never check-raise; others check-raise infrequently. I personally like to check-raise at least once in awhile; 1% would be fine, 0.5% would be acceptable. The goal of the check-raise is to remind your opponents that just because you checked does NOT mean that you don’t have a hand. However, circumstances need to be very specific for a check-raise to be appropriate. Typically, I check-raise on the flop when OOP against a preflop raiser, or on the turn when OOP against a flop bettor/raiser who was clearly not on a draw (uncoordinated flop). If you are check raising much more than 2% of the time, you’re being entirely too tricky for a SSNL table, and straightforward play would probably be more profitable for you.


      All of this is just an introduction to the kinds of self-analysis you can/should do with Poker Tracker statistics. Notice how much more in-depth it is than just glancing at a few VPIP numbers. Typically, the only person who can truly do a “check-up” on your playing style and ability is YOU. As always, if in your searching you find hands that indicate you may have a flaw in your poker reasoning, post them up (one at a time, of course). Tell us the problem you are worried you might have, and why you think this hand might indicate the
      problem. Then, open the discussion up to see if 2+2ers agree or disagree.