Chenny's Single-table SnG Successes and SUCKOUTS

    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      Hi everyone, I'm chenny. Currently studying Engineering at the University here in New Zealand (sheep, rugby... although I have no connection to either). I'm 20 years old and been playing poker for about a year, ever since a friend of mine invited me to his social homegame.

      Basically playing $3+0.3 (turbo, blind leveSnG at the moment. Started at 22$ (i'm willing to fund at least 150$ = ~50BI so it's all good).

      Been playing these tournaments for about a week exclusively now. Generally following a very tight playstyle early, with calculated steals as the blind levels increase. Slowly adapting to a more smallball type play (cf Daniel Negreanu), it's not working for me :P but i definitely don't have the hang of it yet.

      At this level that involves running into a great deal of calling stations, which can both be a blessing and a bloody pest, but it's all in good fun.

      Sitting at 70$ now, highest point around 95$ (have lost about 7 in a row now).

      Gotten below-average luck the whole time, from 22$. Still able to use skills learnt from this site (predominantly) to beat the exceptionally weak players at the level. MANY MANY suckouts against me though (for large portion of stack each time ) which of course gets me quite angry, but I've been controlling the costs of my tilts (read as: quickly quitting after especially bad suckouts :P ).


      Here's a brief summary of what I ran into last hand:

      Blinds: 100/200 -25 ante
      Single Table Turbo
      Total Chips: 15000
      Relevant players:

      UTG/Donkey1: 4500
      BB/Hero: 4500
      (tied chipleaders)
      UTG+1:~2000
      UTG+2:~2000
      Button:1000
      SB:2000

      After winning a nice hand (aggressively preflop played QQ which hit highest set on rainbow board, then slowplayed. Tricked one maniac player into bluffing all-in). Anyway, I was the tied leader with Donkey1, who plays LAG like hell (MANIAC). Table reads me as TIGHT aggressive, although I highly doubt friend maniac was paying that much attention :P .

      I'm dealt the Klansmen (KK) and I put out a medium (3xBB) sized bet... incidentally the EXACT same bet I put out for my QQ last hand! UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, SB calls. Not great not the end, I figure I'm holding the best at the moment.

      Flop comes:

      (Pot= around 2500)
      Qs 7d 3c

      OK, happy with the board so far. I'm pretty sure I haven't run into a set or aces. Don't want to take my chances though, so I decide to kick out a few players and lay out 1800. UTG/MANIAC immediately raises me all-in. I read him as AQ and move in with the call. Everyone else folds

      He shows Js Ts and I laugh... haha here comes another doubleup for 9000/15000 of the total chips.

      Turn comes 4s, River comes... 6s.

      Runner runner flush. Left me on 70 chips saying GG NH WP.


      Generally, though, I've been playing tight, making many laydowns and it's MAINLY paid off. Will keep you all updated about the progress :) .
  • 103 replies
    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      At this level that involves running into a great deal of calling stations, which can both be a blessing and a bloody pest, but it's all in good fun.

      quoting Negreanu: "don't bluff an amateur, amateurs, also known as calling stations don't know how to play. Don't bluff them, they call down anything."

      So a calling station basically cannot be a pest.

      The hand you talked about.... it's funny. Calling you with runner runner, those guys are the people who make you money. Well played, and be happy with it.
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      ofc, statistically speaking, they can and HAVE paid me out...

      but when they hit it feels like god has done you some injustice >< lol.

      that said I just played tournament where i bet a resteal (all-in) into a shortstacked player (i had quite little fold equity) with my A2s, figuring he'd be on KT or something else marginal.

      I was big stack at the time, he calls me shows 66... flop comes Q 8 8. Turn comes 7, river comes Q...

      GIVE HIM 3PAIR YEAH BABY :D .

      back at 87$ now.

      I am not so much bluffing the amateurs, I am making value-bets and, sometimes, LARGE value bets to protect my top pair top kicker against what I would believe to be VERY marginal draws (and they almost always are). That of course doesn't mean I will still win that hand :P .
    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      i don't know where you play, but once you hit the bankroll for it i would advice you to start playin mtt. The game is much better, opponents are softer, and negreanu (our hero) is better at this. i personally like totak a chance sometimes. Get involved i a hand that is much worse then the minimum standard in S&G or cashgames.

      I played s&g' at first, and it didn't do much for me. Only made 100$ in 2-3 weeks. Mtt is a lot more lucrative for me, especially as soon as my luck starts to change again.

      The qualifiers for big tournaments are really soft. 1 out of 8 people qualify, I qualified 3 out of 5 times. It's so soft, full of people with a big prize in their head, and you only have to make the final 30 in the real tourny one out of 9 qualifiers to make it lucrative.

      There are so many people on mtt who are blinded by the big price... Those people make it good.

      It's also a little bit easier to play without cards. You can bluff your way through more hands against some opponents. I was limping with 22, board was kaa, i decided to call his raise. Then he checked the turn, so I floated, and he folded it quickly.

      The "you don't want to put your tournament life on the line for ..." is something you can exploit much better in a mtt. That's what's bothering me with s&g, the cards are more important. Last tournament I played I doubled up without showing a single hand (and I'm very glad I didn't have to show because I had trash the whole time).

      And of course, it doesn't really matter if you lose some. It's only 2 bucks, so if you lose, you can just try again the next day.
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      Will take it into consideration.

      I do really like single-table ones though. Players so weak, and they play like machines. So easy to get GOOD reads on ranges.
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Hi chenny8888!

      Nice read! What a suckout...but that's poker...we wouldn't love that game if always the favourite wins the hand. ;) Hope that you keep doing well whether in Sit&Go or multi table tournaments!

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      And successes!

      Middle of tournament: 6 players remain. I find myself with the Ladies. Make a standard 3xBB bet as UTG+2. BB calls me.

      Flop comes:

      A 8 6 rainbow

      BAD BAD BAD

      BB makes what looks like a conti-bet. I doubt he has an ace and would bet so low so I push him for all-in (i've got half my stack in the middle as it is).

      He shows A8 OW.

      Turn comes 2.

      River comes Q, GG set > flopped 2-pair :D .


      But that's poker, isn't it.


      FYI VERY next hand same poor soul slowplayed Aces, ran into callingstation holding flushdraw with no more than a J2, with 2 being the suit of the flushdraw. Flush draw wins. (sounds like the luck i should be getting ;D).


      Bankroll still hovering around similar spot.
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      So the SnG section of the site I play at were down yesterday for site maintenance (was just down for an hour or so). I felt like playing some poker so I bought my way into the lowest limit offered, and started playing BSS.

      5 hands later I find myself with the Klansmen (I like them).. Raise a reraise to about 3$ on the .05/.10 tables, guy calls me. Flop comes trash trash trash, 2 same suit. I put a scare bet out $3, guy raises me to all-in (we both bought in with max. $10). He shows Aces, which holds up against my Kings.

      Later on vs same guy, I'm QQ late position, raise 5xBB (only about .50), he calls.

      Flop comes rainbow 8 6 2, again I put $2 into pot (pot was $2, we had a couple of limpers), limpers fold he raises, I re-raise all-in... he calls... shows 66... flopped devil's hand holds up and I'm swiftly $20 down :'(.


      Moral of the story: NO MORE CASH GAMES :) ). SnG giving me massive return, cash games total massive loss :P .

      Anyway, spent the day recuperating the $20 loss. Playing tournaments, I'm back up to $84 despite a SEVERE drought of decent cards, but that's OK. I'll persevere :) .
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Hi chenny8888!

      Sometimes you run into aces or a set. There is nothing you can do. Even in tournaments you will lose these hands ;) But if you think you are a better poker player at tournaments you should play them.

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
    • timukasr
      timukasr
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.05.2007 Posts: 1,820
      I usually leave table when I have doubled up in cash game. Because I'm a fraid to lose my earnings hehe.
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      KK vs AA is something unavoidable. I wouldn't fold Kings unless it was monochrome board or possibly 3-connected vs very loose calling station.

      I shouldnt've gone broke using a BSS-type system against the same player with QQ though. Whereas in turbo tournament this is probably a just call, in retrospect going all-in on the flop with this was not very smart...


      oh well it doesn't matter, no more cash games :P .

      Starting to read HoH 1 now. Interesting theories, sticking to my system at the moment (yesterday pretty neutral up only 1BI total to $87 xD ).

      Biggest thing I've taken from HoH1 at the moment is paying attention to your own table image. While in my low-level SnG few people would pay attention to reads and recent actions, I have noticed that people I've previously marked as "good" will respect a push after 10 consecutive folds on a shorthanded table.

      First finals exam for engineering today, wish me luck! I need it more than on the tables!
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Have fund reading HoH1. It's the bible for tournament players.

      Good luck with your exam (and at the tables ;) )!
      Puschkin81
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      So the exam went OK.

      I celebrated by playing some poker. Bad idea. Over the past 2 days I've got ROI of maybe -30% and my bankroll's REALLY taken a hit. Some vomit-worthy luck.

      Just then sucked out of a tournament AA vs 66 vs QQ all preflop AI. ofc QQ hits his queen.

      Other situations where I've made a stand after being card-dead for a LONG time and blinds are really hurting with GOOD hands like KK QQ. twice with QQ i ran into KK (no Q on the board those times ;) ), and KK running smack into AA (again AA holds).

      Other more marginal calls: AJ busted me out when I raised AI with AT (board A-rag-rag. Late in tourn, shorthanded) and get called by AJ.

      Oh and earlier on HU, SB gives me a freeplay while I'm holding 83. Board comes A 8 3 (2 diamonds). I make a standard "conti-bet" size bet which he returns with an All-In (our stacks about even at this point). He re-raises All-In thinking he's caught me in a bluff and I call. He turns over Kspade2 :diamond: . 9d comes out turn 7d comes out river. He hits his backdoor flush ><.

      So these two days I've lost maybe 1-2 BI purely from tilt due to these actions, but in general I think I am playing OK.

      Going to persevere obviously but this downswing (total maybe 10BI) is really really hurting.

      Oh well that's poker :/.


      K update now -11BI. Just hit the nut flush on the flop with 7Ts full table (3 people in the hand at this point). Bet pot/called. Turn comes rag so I raise all-in to push out the rare chance that this guy is holding a better club and is waiting on a fourth club on the board. Nope, he had the nut flush too with QK of clubs.. Bad play? Should I have known that I was beat when he called my pot bet on the flop?

      Didn't save the hand history but others' opinions on that very last hand would be nice
    • helemaalnicks
      helemaalnicks
      Bronze
      Joined: 21.09.2007 Posts: 7,195
      nut flush = flush that is the nuts, just to help you with terminology, THE nut flush is the flush with the highest possible card, that is, Ace in your hand, hit your flush, king in your hand, hit the flush with A on the board, Q in your hand, hit the flush with AK on the board, etc.

      However, I think you didn't make a mistake in this hand. It is very unlikely that he had the same suit in his hand as you, AND that the same suit hits the board on the flop.

      Those beats can happen, happened to me too yesterday, 99 busted my jj, all in QQ ran into KK, etc. The worse one being, All in against two people I put on Ak - AJ, after I hit 2 pair with A 10 on the flop. Runnerrunner club... Both players had 1 club card, my two pair busted. I can only say, brush it off.
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      yeah sorry i meant 5th nut flush ><. Sick thing is this is perhaps the "most wrong" thing I've done these two days disregarding perhaps 1 game where I was heavily on tilt.

      yeah i'm persevering at it. it's tough though, ofc xD . Has made me take a good look at my game and make a couple of minor +ev corrections (eg minraising in late position rather than standard 2.5xBB raises if it's a great hand, tightening up early in the game earlier in position).


      There we go, my odds holding up now and I'm back to 78$ with 1 1st place 1 2nd place (only about 2 BI down overall these 2 days). Although the very last hand of the 2nd place... wow. Let me explain situation

      Heads Up: I hold Aclub5x, NICE HAND HU of course. Blinds 200/400 ante -50.

      Hero/Button/SB/~5k/LooseAggressive
      Villain/BB/~10k/TightPassive

      I raise 2.5xBB @ 1000. Villain calls

      (Pot 1700)
      Flop comes 5 7 J clubs.

      Villain checks. I bet 850 (half-pot conti bet, protecting low pair etc). Villain calls.

      Turn comes Kx.

      Villain checks. I check behind.

      River comes 9clubs... YESSSS i have the nut flush. All-In!!!

      I show A clubs... villain shows 6 clubs 8 clubs.

      Straight flush in Heads Up! Too funny for me to be angry at him >< lol.
    • Laurenz1988
      Laurenz1988
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.09.2007 Posts: 180
      Dont play tubo's, too much depends on luck and u need a way bigger bankroll for it if u wanan play it (if its even +EV considering the rake)
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      rake's 10%.

      i'm +ev on it.

      blind levels are 5min and they begin at 10/20 1500 stacks; that's not too bad in my opinion. It's not like some sites where blind levels are 3min or even 2min or you start with a 1000 stack.


      Back at $87. Clearly an upswing (ROI >%200 last 5 tournaments lol) but I can't help but feel that the downswing did help my game.. hmm. At least not 10 hours wasted! :P
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      hey just an update.

      just about to go to sleep in preparation for my second exam, and what a way to end the night!

      I'm playing 5+.5 now because they're not turbo (i'm better at non-turbo which is deeper stacks for longer and hence more postflop play vs these passive donkeys :D ).

      bit of a background, it's 10-man SnG, we were last 2. we'd been going HU for about 20min. It was VERY even, with an early double-up by the Villain holding the 2nd nut straight (flopped no less) to beat my top pair top kicker (and he check/called the whole way! even the river! lol!). That put us on even stacks. Then a stupid bluff by me put him at a 9000/6000 lead. Couple of hands later I double up with flopped top 2-pair which I bet nice and small and have him calling down against.

      About Villain: he was quite good, mixed it up quite a bit with slowplays and overbets and value-bets, but was in general far too passive for HU (although he caught quite a few good hands). I started out being very loose aggressive, but eventually tightened up.

      here's one of the hands that I especially liked. (I had been firing a 3-bullet approach quite a bit, with typically a 2.5xBB raise preflop followed by a half-pot conti-bet, then a 100-larger 2nd-bullet and finally a 1500 bet on the river if that card could mean I was representing a flush, or a middle pair that had turned into a set to beat his ~top pair.

      This hand I had him well covered, ~9000/6000.

      ------------------------------
      Starting hand #962584697
      ------------------------------
      NEW HAND
      HWTexas posts ante $25.00
      Hero posts ante $25.00
      HWTexas posts the small blind $200.00
      Hero posts the big blind $400.00

      DEALING POCKETS
      HWTexas calls $200.00
      Hero (Jc,Qd)

      Pot 850
      DEALING FLOP (Td,8h,9d)
      Hero bets $450.00
      HWTexas calls $450.00

      Pot 1750
      DEALING TURN (Kh)
      Hero bets $500.00
      HWTexas calls $500.00

      Pot 2750
      DEALING RIVER (7c)
      Hero bets $1,500.00
      HWTexas goes all in $4,555.00
      Hero calls $3,055.00
      HWTexas shows a Straight, Jack high
      HWTexas shows a Straight, Jack high (Js, 9h)
      Hero shows a Straight, King high

      Hand 962584697:
      Hero wins main pot($11,860.00)
      with a Straight, King high
      HWTexas finished in 2nd place and won $15.00
      Hero finished in 1st place and won $25.00
      This tournament has ended.


      So I'm sitting at 130$ now which is nice considering I started tournament play off with 22$
    • Puschkin81
      Puschkin81
      Bronze
      Joined: 14.04.2006 Posts: 4,786
      Hi chenny8888!

      Although you don't stick to the bankroll management :evil: : Well done! ;)

      Good luck at the tables!
      Puschkin81
    • chenny8888
      chenny8888
      Bronze
      Joined: 03.10.2007 Posts: 19,324
      it's a bit different. I put in 22$ but I'm willing to put in as much as 250$ so I may not be managing the current bankroll, but it's well within my effective bankroll :P