[Closed] 11$ superstack 15kg

hand four is bit sick but standard shove & call

hand one your MP & fold for me in early position & on flop would cbet/fold here , got lucky so nice double up

hand two is also fold from early position & would check flop in position , chances are you missed flop anyway so easy check/raise for button

hand three , is also fold for me UTG , playing hands out of position is not easy sometimes & here you never know where you are in the hand & hard to get away from it

I post all 4 hands so u can see the flow of the game
I am most interested about hand No3 (77)

@curnow
as u can see hand 2 & 3 r 7 handed so imo those r standard opens

please post individual hands1

a7 -> fold preflop as playing i don't really like calling on that board, there are not a lot of turncards which can help you

k/10 standard

77 -> very ugly you get super potodds. i guess i call one time on the flop, if he bets again i'm out. You are up against an overpair jj+ very very often.

aj - standard

Originally posted by seeberger
please post individual hands1

a7 -> fold preflop as playing i don't really like calling on that board, there are not a lot of turncards which can help you

k/10 standard

77 -> very ugly you get super potodds. i guess i call one time on the flop, if he bets again i'm out. You are up against an overpair jj+ very very often.

aj - standard

i was asking only about that 77 hand(#3)and i post 4 hands on replayer that happen in a row so you can see game flow
that that was 3 time i open in a row,
-first time i show A8,
-#2 i bet fold flop,
-and then this #3 hand(77) came in a row
Full Tilt - 6000/12000 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

CO: 395,826.00
BTN: 480,592.00
SB: 466,201.00
BB: 512,880.00
Hero (UTG): 523,717.00
UTG+1: 356,208.00
MP: 271,688.00

CO posts ante 1,500.00, BTN posts ante 1,500.00, SB posts ante 1,500.00, BB posts ante 1,500.00, Hero posts ante 1,500.00, UTG+1 posts ante 1,500.00, MP posts ante 1,500.00, SB posts SB 6,000.00, BB posts BB 12,000.00

Pre Flop: (28500.00) Hero has 7♥ 7♣

Hero raises to 27,899.00, UTG+1 raises to 43,798.00, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero 4BET TO 110K/FOLD TO A SHOVE OR JUST CALL/FOLD
Hero calls 15,899.00

Flop: (116096.00, 2 players) 3♠ 3♣ 8♥
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets 60,000.00, Hero calls 60,000.00

Turn: (236096.00, 2 players) 6♥
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets 132,000.00, HeroSHOVE OR FOLD ???,

i was asking for opinion would there 4bet preflop to ~110kbe best play cops it looks very strong with that game flow and we can fold to a jam cos villain that 3 bet me was good player and he might just play back at me with 22+, Axs KQs etc and playing 77 oop with those stack sizes suck

i don't like 4bet/fold there because of the great odds you get.

Originally posted by seeberger
i don't like 4bet/fold there because of the great odds you get.

he got us crushed with his 5bet shoving range (it cant be looser then TT+,AQs+) in that spot with those stack sizes and with that history from previous play that i open 3 times in a row (villain imo is good wining thinking player) and we r getting like 1,8:1 pot odds for a call and vs villains 5beting range we have an easy fold imo

btw why we r calling pre, we cant call for set value, and if we call so we can get it in on decent boards this board is 1 of them, but more i think about this hand more i think that best play with that history would be 4bet/fold

p.s. after the hand i think that he min 3bet so he could fold if i 4bet him, guess we never know

agree to you that you have a close 4bet fold if you give him that range. but i guess we can setmine here. i mean we pay 15.000k and he has >300.000
but the spot is so tough, his minreraise just gives us everytime a very ugly decision in that spot.

call pre call flop fold turn.

Originally posted by seeberger
agree to you that you have a close 4bet fold if you give him that range. but i guess we can setmine here. i mean we pay 15.000k and he has >300.000
but the spot is so tough, his minreraise just gives us everytime a very ugly decision in that spot.

yea is ugly spot

Originally posted by chenny8888
call pre call flop fold turn.

thats standard play, mine turn play is awful
but with game flow (check link in first post), dont you think that 4 bet/fold will be best play, cos 4bet it looks super strong in that spot imo

no.

no.

no.

4b/f makes no sense. your hadn plays awfully if he calls, and if you're expecting him to shove or fold then it's also a very bad hand because you dont' block any of his shoving range

Originally posted by chenny8888
no.

no.

no.

4b/f makes no sense. your hadn plays awfully if he calls, and if you're expecting him to shove or fold then it's also a very bad hand because you dont' block any of his shoving range

i think with game flow, that was spot where villain will often play back at me with weak hands that cant take much heat, and cos our hand plays bad post flop 4beting and trying to take pot down preflop should be best play imo (and with that game flow imo 4bet looks stronger than normal)
when we 4 bet we r done with that hand we r not putting any chips more if villains just call, except if we hit set or board came something like 658/89T/456
but imo when we 4bet he will fold something like 88-TT and KQs, AT-AQ maybe even JJ, AK (which is big plus cos we make a lot better hands to fold + hands that r flipping vs our hand and cant stand 4bet and villains cant shove for value with them vs our 4bet ) and we r narrowing his shoving range in which he dont have worse hands than AQs and imo vs that range folding is best thats why our line should 4bet/fold and not 4bet/call and we dont need to block his shoving range to make this play +ev imo cos as i said i'm expecting fold from 88-TT,KQs,AT-AQ (sometimes JJ/AK) and yea im expecting him to have those hands when he 3bet me in that spot

4betting to 110k looks like an awful raise size
If you put him on AQ+,JJ+ you have to call his shove...

Anyway I agree with chenny+seeberger about the best line

Originally posted by goldchess
4betting to 110k looks like an awful raise size
If you put him on AQ+,JJ+ you have to call his shove...

Anyway I agree with chenny+seeberger about the best line

why we got to call, to break even vs villains range? this is not cash game and chips gain dont have same value as chips lost imo

btw imo 110k is perfect 4bet size (is 2,5x his raise and 1/3 of his stack size) as you say villain will assume, as you do, that you r going to call if he shoves cos your r getting good pot odds (= he dont have fold EQ) and if he just calls he only have pot bet behind so is ugly spot for him to be in, so most often he will just shove or fold in that spot

chips won/lost don't have the same value but that's not a reason to spew equity by 4bet/folding this shallow.

thanks for your replies and for nice discussion

i just have couple of questions for all you guys (alejandrosh , goldchess, chenny8888, seeberger, curnow )

1) in this spot if you 4bet, what is your 4beting size and what is your 4bet/get it in range?

2) in this spot with all this reads and game flow, do you have 4bet folding range and if you do what is that range?

3) in this spot if you are in villain shoes, with which range of hands do you continue (shove or just call) if hero 4bet?

1) range for 4bet/shove preflop would bet Js+ AQ but as played think you could 4bet/fold to around 100K , at least you know where you are but his min bet does that

2) its the game play thats the problem & would always put you on LAG so range can be lot higher against you so 4bet range could even be higher knowing gonna get paid off

3) putting you as lag would be around 9s+ & AJ , he is bit to deep to want to flip + you should put him on higher range + the min bet pre looks like very strong hand so he is tempting you to shove & looking for the 4bet from hero

as played would call preflop & bet/fold flop but its easy with results , the way you played it looks like AK/AQ on flop & so pretty easy turn for him to double up

1) all-in or 80k if i feel villain is especially spewy. 99+ AQ+.

2) no

3) JJ+ AK. but I would not mrr with a lot of TT type hands and then fold those to a shove. because that's awful