[Closed] AJ late in MTT

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the way villain played his hand preflop and on flop (call pre, small donk/block bet on flop) he almost never has strong hand/draw on flop

so imo
raise flop to 2100 shove any turn, or shove flop

Hi, with your read on villain, I would make the initial raise bigger, 3 - 3.5 x BB, make him pay to play. Bet bigger on the flop or alternatively check raise big, expecting the donk bet.
As played, hard not to go broke here

@bonebt: After thinking about it, you may be right that a good part of his range is air here, however in this spot I can't rule out A9, 9T, 78, A x 88, TT or AK type hands that he's calling a shove raise with. I think the raise flop shove turn line is bad but the shove flop is marginal (I think even the best options are only marginal here). I think it makes him fold his air and small pairs and wins the pot instantly and with the shove I still have a couple outs when I'm behind. But playing such an aggressive line against the chip leader is extremely scary. A line I didn't think of though so always good to see a completely different side.

@rhinoneil: My raise size was doing well, getting respected and gave me enough room to play postflop poker so I see no need to raise it to 10% of my stack. Also, I didn't bet on the flop and was in position so there was no way I could checkraise.

Originally posted by Washdogg
@bonebt: After thinking about it, you may be right that a good part of his range is air here, however in this spot I can't rule out A9, 9T, 78, A x 88, TT or AK type hands that he's calling a shove raise with. I think the raise flop shove turn line is bad but the shove flop is marginal (I think even the best options are only marginal here). I think it makes him fold his air and small pairs and wins the pot instantly and with the shove I still have a couple outs when I'm behind. But playing such an aggressive line against the chip leader is extremely scary. A line I didn't think of though so always good to see a completely different side.

@rhinoneil: My raise size was doing well, getting respected and gave me enough room to play postflop poker so I see no need to raise it to 10% of my stack. Also, I didn't bet on the flop and was in position so there was no way I could checkraise.

I thought you said villain was calling light so clearly your raises werent getting respect from him.
In terms of play, my bad, i think you either raise the donk bet or let it go, with your reads, I raise.

I'm thinking I might be a bit of a pussy but my theoretical line would be different here - especially because it doesn't seem (to me) worth it to challenge the biggest stack with a marginal holding at this point.

So I would check back turn for pot control and, with that last spade on board, call a small/value bet but not a big one on river.

But then again, I'm not quite a profitable online MTT player even though I do well on live.

Just this last Monday I busted out from a live in a similar hand. Final table, 6 players left, my stack is 24k (12BB). I raised button with ATo, called by the SB (big stack). Flop is T76, the SB checks, I bet, he raises. He did it with air all day, so I went all-in on top with TPTK, reasoning TT, 77, 66 and 89 were unlikely and "coolers" - he insta-called and turned over JJ. I bust out and the very next hand the short stack on the table busts out.

I "played for the win", but in that spot it was not worth it, imho. And I think it was better than the one posted by OP, since I was beating all other Ax and no flush draws on table.

I don't know if I made myself clear, just an opinion open for criticism.

@bonebt: 3betting light doesn't mean on every steal. And out of my 9 or 10 steals he had only flatted me 1 other time and 3bet me once. However, I saw him 3bet what seemed like every raise by anyone else. Possibly because we have a few hundred tourney hands together. So my raises were getting respected a good majority of the time.

@luizsilveira: I agree. I think the best play here is either fold flop or check turn and call river. In your situation with TPTK bet/broke is fine. In both our spots even the best play is only marginal against a LAG bigstack. So I think in marginal situations against an aggressive bigstack I would tend to lean towards checking and folding over calling and raising. Obviously with your hand you can't fold TPTK and checking it behind is kinda scary on that board but after his checkraise I might consider folding it. Even against like 88 or 99 (probably the bottom of his checkraise range) you're only 75%.

Originally posted by Washdogg
@bonebt: 3betting light doesn't mean on every steal. And out of my 9 or 10 steals he had only flatted me 1 other time and 3bet me once. However, I saw him 3bet what seemed like every raise by anyone else. Possibly because we have a few hundred tourney hands together. So my raises were getting respected a good majority of the time.

u know what this looks to me, that you r posting hand and you r asking for an opinion on your play => but you really dont want to put efforts to think about spots and open your mind, and you want us to agree to you'r opinion and not criticized your weak play

i'll put it this way:
- you have wide range when you open from BTN so villain if is good reg knows that,
also as you say he is respecting your raises so in his eyes you r tight/ and maybe str8forward/pasiv post flop which means that he dont want to 3bet you very light pre but he thinks that he can outplay you post flop or he has super strong hand or hand that plays well post flop so thats why he just calls pre.

-so, that flop, if you r tigh in his eyes, dint hit your range great so he is donking small for
#1)info to see where his hand stands (he has mediocre hand that cant stand raise) and what kind of hand do you have... which means if you r tight in his eyes and you have good hand/draw you would most likely raise on that flop so when you call you r turning your hand face up...

#2) he has big hand and he want to induce raise/spew from you which is not the case most of the time, cos we assume and your reads are that he sees you as tight, and you r almost never going to raise as bluff

so when he donks small on that flop and you raise his regish ass (cos you r tight in his eyes) he will only continue (probably shove) only with big strong draws (like most of the time when he shoves he will only have a strong draw which btw you beat with your Ahi) and strong made hands(which he will have only tiny % of time cos we asume that he thinks that you r tight and he wont donk bet small into you to induce bluff) and he will fold all the rest of his donking range cos you r reping overpair or big draw (flush draw + overcards)

so the way i see this, he pwned you

btw why r you calling on that flop no draws no nothing, what do you think villain have when he donks and what do you want to happen/hit on turn to win this hand?

P.S. I dont like to be rude or something but cos english is not my first language this might sound a little harder then it should be

Originally posted by bonebt

Originally posted by Washdogg
@bonebt: 3betting light doesn't mean on every steal. And out of my 9 or 10 steals he had only flatted me 1 other time and 3bet me once. However, I saw him 3bet what seemed like every raise by anyone else. Possibly because we have a few hundred tourney hands together. So my raises were getting respected a good majority of the time.

u know what this looks to me, that you r posting hand and you r asking for an opinion on your play => but you really dont want to put efforts to think about spots and open your mind, and you want us to agree to you'r opinion and not criticized your weak play

i'll put it this way:
- you have wide range when you open from BTN so villain if is good reg knows that,
also as you say he is respecting your raises so in his eyes you r tight/ and maybe str8forward/pasiv post flop which means that he dont want to 3bet you very light pre but he thinks that he can outplay you post flop or he has super strong hand or hand that plays well post flop so thats why he just calls pre.

-so, that flop, if you r tigh in his eyes, dint hit your range great so he is donking small for
#1)info to see where his hand stands (he has mediocre hand that cant stand raise) and what kind of hand do you have... which means if you r tight in his eyes and you have good hand/draw you would most likely raise on that flop so when you call you r turning your hand face up...

#2) he has big hand and he want to induce raise/spew from you which is not the case most of the time, cos we assume and your reads are that he sees you as tight, and you r almost never going to raise as bluff

so when he donks small on that flop and you raise his regish ass (cos you r tight in his eyes) he will only continue (probably shove) only with big strong draws (like most of the time when he shoves he will only have a strong draw which btw you beat with your Ahi) and strong made hands(which he will have only tiny % of time cos we asume that he thinks that you r tight and he wont donk bet small into you to induce bluff) and he will fold all the rest of his donking range cos you r reping overpair or big draw (flush draw + overcards)

so the way i see this, he pwned you

btw why r you calling on that flop no draws no nothing, what do you think villain have when he donks and what do you want to happen/hit on turn to win this hand?

P.S. I dont like to be rude or something but cos english is not my first language this might sound a little harder then it should be

+1

After reading my last reply it says @bonebt when I meant @rhinoneil. My apologies.

@bonebt: for real this time. I'm definitely not looking for everyone to say I played this right or else I would've posted a hand where I felt like I played it right, lol. Besides, I did thank you for suggesting this line since it's one that had never even crossed my mind. I definitely see the thought process on the hand and it's completely sound. I'm still not sure that I would like a line that aggressive against the chip leader and still think I prefer the fold flop or check behind turn lines. However, I see how your line is profitable. But if he has a strong draw here or is looking for me to spew here, this isn't where I want to go out in the tournament. Funny since I ended up falling in love with the A on the turn anyway. The plan was to float here so that I wouldn't really have to deal with him seeing flops against me very often and going after the easier money on the table. On the flop I had figured he had a small suited A, overcards (KQ mainly) or a mid pair (88, 77). Of course with the c/r on the turn I figured he had the Ax and had me on some 88, TT type hand.

And no worries about being harsh, I appreciate you giving your input.

Originally posted by bonebt
dont post results

the way villain played his hand preflop and on flop (call pre, small donk/block bet on flop) he almost never has strong hand/draw on flop

so imo
raise flop to 2100 shove any turn, or shove flop

you can also float him -> so call flop and betting good turncards is certainly not a big mistake.
as played i can never fold this hand since he can shove everything vom air, to fds to worse ax hands and made hands like set.
so i'm not going to fold!

Originally posted by Washdogg
After reading my last reply it says @bonebt when I meant @rhinoneil. My apologies.

@bonebt: for real this time. I'm definitely not looking for everyone to say I played this right or else I would've posted a hand where I felt like I played it right, lol. Besides, I did thank you for suggesting this line since it's one that had never even crossed my mind. I definitely see the thought process on the hand and it's completely sound. I'm still not sure that I would like a line that aggressive against the chip leader and still think I prefer the fold flop or check behind turn lines. However, I see how your line is profitable. But if he has a strong draw here or is looking for me to spew here, this isn't where I want to go out in the tournament. Funny since I ended up falling in love with the A on the turn anyway. The plan was to float here so that I wouldn't really have to deal with him seeing flops against me very often and going after the easier money on the table. On the flop I had figured he had a small suited A, overcards (KQ mainly) or a mid pair (88, 77). Of course with the c/r on the turn I figured he had the Ax and had me on some 88, TT type hand.

And no worries about being harsh, I appreciate you giving your input.

i just want to add that you cant win if you r not ready to die/bust, and you got to know that the best hand is a pair of balls ')

Lol. So since posting this hand I've gotten advice to fold the flop from hasenbraten, check behind by luizsilveira (still my fav option i think) and float/broke (my actual line) by seeburger. This is why poker is such a great game.

Hi,

although you already got some great input
here is another opinion

Cheers,

Pascal

Originally posted by Pascal
Hi,

although you already got some great input
here is another opinion

Cheers,

Pascal

Quite cool!

But not "another" option... I think it pretty much went along with what was said before.

Super nice the idea, congrats to pokerstrategy and its team