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[Closed] ICM calculations late in a 15+1$

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chenny8888
Joined: 03.10.2007

Seat 1: Frys (5055 in chips)
Seat 5: hav0cLOL (5425 in chips)
Seat 9: Elfin_Jam (3020 in chips)

hav0cLOL: posts small blind 300
Elfin_Jam: posts big blind 600

HOLE CARDS
Dealt to hav0cLOL [5s 7c]

Hero pushes... correct?

OK, here i have got into a big argument with nick, where he is questioning my ridiculously superior mathematics skills! and do NOT parse this through ICM trainer or SNGwizard, stick with me and my calculations first!

Assuming villain's range is 30%, our equity is exactly 1/3:

P(push, villain folds) = 0.7.. expected gain = 0.7 * 900 = 630
P(push, villain calls, villain loses) = 0.3 * 0.333 = 0.1.. expected gain = 0.1 * 3020 = 302
P(push, villain calls, villain wins) = 0.3 * 0.666 = 0.2.. expected gain = 0.2 * -3020 = -604

so our expected gain for a push is 630+302-604 = +328 chips.
But then we subtract our loss from folding (300), which gives us a total of 628 chips gained from the move

Assuming villain's range is 50%, or equity increases to 0.35:

P(push, villain folds) = 0.5.. expected gain = 0.5 * 900 = 450
P(push, villain calls, villain loses) = 0.5 * 0.35 = 0.175.. expected gain = 0.175 * 3020 = 528.5
P(push, villain calls, villain wins) = 0.5 * 0.65 = 0.325.. expected gain = 0.325 * -3020 = -981.5

for an expected gain of 3 chips. But then we subtract our loss from folding (300), which gives us a total of 303 chips gained from the move

I AM CORRECT, RIGHT?

this is why...

;) ;)


11 replies

50%FE, estimated value after the push:

fold: 3020+600 = 1810

17.5%
call/win: 6040 = 1057

35%
call/lose: 0 = 0

2867, so the push is +147 chippiez

btw: nice how you blacked out the total proftit ;)

P(push, villain folds) = 0.5.. expected gain = 0.5 * 900 = 450
P(push, villain calls, villain loses) = 0.5 * 0.35 = 0.175.. expected gain = 0.175 * 2720 = 581
P(push, villain calls, villain wins) = 0.5 * 0.65 = 0.325.. expected gain = 0.325 * 3320 = -884

581+450-884 = +147.


chenny8888
Joined: 03.10.2007

oof... got the expected gain part from folding wrong.

it's 0.7 * 600 and 0.5 * 600 for 70% and 30% respectively

but the fact remains that it was a +EV move, and nick vehemently disagreed (obviously not now!)


it's still -ev$, my point was that you should've folded 57o. Whats the point of math if you can play poker, hah ;).


Nick what is that gold star against your name lol , dont you have to be a top player to get it

as for pushing 7 5 o out of position , it would depend what I know about the player in the BB , you are pushing into a random hand being 40/60% dog and if they have information on you they gonna call with marginal hands


Nick what is that gold star against your name lol , dont you have to be a top player to get it

:O


chenny8888
Joined: 03.10.2007

nah i did the calcs based on no ante. with a 50 ante from each player increasing the initial pot to 1050 this was a very easy shove


Unam
Joined: 17.08.2006

First I don't think you have 70% FE, you might have 50%, but don't get me wrong. A good player will call you with a wide range here, I get called by Q high in these spots, because people know what they do.
So in short, this is almost the borderline between +EV and -EV, when the other players are great, but on the lower limits they are not, so you can shove this, unless you have the image to get called or you know the BB is very loose (he has to call about 55%) to make it -EV.


chenny8888
Joined: 03.10.2007

BB is loose but i don't care..

with an ante of 50 from each player he has to make the call >54% the time for the move to be -EV according to ICM trainer

his range has to be wide enough to include Q2o for this to be -EV move. i really can't see people calling with hands as good in value as a totally naked queen.


Originally posted by chenny8888
BB is loose but i don't care..

with an ante of 50 from each player he has to make the call >54% the time for the move to be -EV according to ICM trainer

his range has to be wide enough to include Q2o for this to be -EV move. i really can't see people calling with hands as good in value as a totally naked queen.

I'm from England and that image is wrong. Just wrong. xD


Unam
Joined: 17.08.2006

Originally posted by ManniXXX
I'm from England and that image is wrong. Just wrong. xD


TerrorBlade
Joined: 16.10.2007

You should have folded


By dakrynveii

THAT IS WHY!

PS. ICM trainer says push 75o+ in that position

Still my ROI > yours :D :D


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