problem playing QQ and AK

18.09.2011, 10:59 0

i tracked my hands with holdem manager and found out 4 types of hands are my big losers

1) ATs-A2s - suited ace with small kickers. Even with a position, i rarely get payed even if i hit my flush on the turn/river. + these hands get me in lots of trouble on flops where i hit the ace. I decided to drop them for a while

2) small pairs 77-22. i know about the call 20 rules and stuff, but the problem is, its 7.5:1 to make the set i think. So mostly on the flop when i dont hit the set, there are 2 overcards, and after a standard cbet and a call from villain, i cant do much than drop the hand. Even if i make my set on the flop, i rarely get payed big, its ususally just about 20-25BB's and its not profitable for me in the long run. decided to drop them too.

but as the title says i have biggest problems with QQ and AK.

The thing is, even if QQ and AK are usually the nuts, even in FR, you either not get payed preflop, or ur up against a bigger hand.
In these limits, after you raise with your AK or QQ, and villain 3bets, he is most likely to hold a better hand already. 90% of the guys (except of russian retards who 3bet hands like KTo in position) only 3bet with hands like AA, KK, QQ, AK. so when ur holding AK (QQ), you are losing to AA, KK, and flipping against QQ (AK). However, it is a stupid idea to drop the hands after a 3bet ofc, they are just too strong for that. But after you 4bet light (about 2.5x raise) he is almost guaranteed (about 80-90% of the time) to 5bet - shove. and now i think there is no getting away from the hand, ur getting good pot odds after all, most of the times, i think, but, what a surprise, they really have aces or kings.

so it all comes down to this, most players at these limits are calling stations or TPP's which are most likely to hold a better hand than your QQ/AK after they 3bet. It is stupid to fold the hand, ofc, its too strong, but after you 4bet you kinda HAVE TO call his all-in, just to see that he holds AA/KK...

i could ofc, drop these hands and not play them at all, but that would be stupid i guess. How can i be a profitable player, not playing these really strong hands?

but i already lost around $50 in average with AK/QQ... and dont really like them anymore

any ideas?

3 replies

veriz

Joined: 20.07.2008

Posts: 64,009

18.09.2011, 15:12 0

< Moved your thread to Discussion section >

_Anonymous_

18.09.2011, 15:34 0

If you don't have a tell or stats that he 3bets light then just fold the hands insteed of 4betting

I myself have almost (only really good spots) stopped set-mining because they don't stack off so easily that it would be EV+ on my limit (NL4). I want to have the initiative insteed so I can c-bet.

If you have trouble with As with small kickers just dropp them. It's easy to get in big troubles if you tend to overplay these hands.

If you would like to talk strategy on skype join: Skype Group NL2-4

/Jonas

xenomorphic

Joined: 29.12.2010

Posts: 3,381

18.09.2011, 16:13 0

i think by dropping small pocket pairs you are missing out on a shit ton of value. i love limping behind with them because often when people hit after raising preflop they have trouble folding even TPTK, let alone flush and straight draws. they seem to be more than happy to stack off with these and they dont hold up too often. sets are where i make a lot of my winnings. sometimes they just fold to your resistance but thats cos they simply dont have a hand worth playing. just keep playing them they are amazing hands it's even sweeter when someone thinks they are cool slow playing AA and find they cant get away on the flop when you have a set ♦

about AK/QQ... i have had lots of problems with these hands in the past. in the end i decided to just drop them from my 4bet range unless i really know the opponent is an idiot. the thing is at nl2 and nl4 a lot of the time you find that people are only happy to get all in with AA/KK/QQ (sometimes) and AK. and if you hold AK it's so unlikely they have the same hand - so they must have a different hand - probably a better one. this is why i generally just fold it since i hate getting all in with QQ/AK. call it weak, but after being up against AA/KK so many times i think it is a good decision. and in any case, AK/QQ are hands that capitalise on the fold equity created by your 3bet/4bet shoves. the problem is, in these limits at least (i wouldn't know about higher limits), once you see a 3bet it is pretty unlikely villain is folding after investing that sort of aggression - so if you shove, you are likely to get called. also imo its really not a nice idea to just call an all in with AK/QQ since they have shown such strength.

even if you are ahead with AK/QQ sometimes like up against AQ, AJ, JJ etc more often than not you are up against a better hand. i dont think there is anything bad or weak about folding these hands if you think you are beaten.

The thing is, even if QQ and AK are usually the nuts, even in FR, you either not get payed preflop, or ur up against a bigger hand. In these limits, after you raise with your AK or QQ, and villain 3bets, he is most likely to hold a better hand already. 90% of the guys (except of russian retards who 3bet hands like KTo in position) only 3bet with hands like AA, KK, QQ, AK. so when ur holding AK (QQ), you are losing to AA, KK, and flipping against QQ (AK).

so you say that when you hold these hands and face some strong preflop resistance that you are up against bigger hands 90% of the time, and i have to agree with this. it is a pain in the ass.

However, it is a stupid idea to drop the hands after a 3bet ofc, they are just too strong for that. But after you 4bet light (about 2.5x raise) he is almost guaranteed (about 80-90% of the time) to 5bet - shove. and now i think there is no getting away from the hand, ur getting good pot odds after all, most of the times, i think, but, what a surprise, they really have aces or kings.

if you are against bigger hands in these spots - which is very often the case - why is it a stupid idea to drop the hands after a 3bet?! this makes no sense!

in these situations i tend to say f**k pot odds im folding because they mostly have one of the 2 hands you just dont want them to have - AA/KK.

these are my thoughts on AK/QQ preflop. i may be so wrong and might be playing them too nitty but tbh this seems to be working out very well since i stopped playing for stacks with them. i hope this helps!

(sorry for wall of text!)

[Closed] problem playing QQ and AK