200 JTo, two pair on R vs small donkbet

Quite a weird play by a "solid reg", I don't like his line at all really so would probably change to "regfish"

I think usually vs bad players we can put players on a range that is not so polarised. I think they should have some Kx that doesn't want to call 40-50$ on the river and then flushes that they randomly bet small so that we always pay. The reason why I don't think it is a polarized range is because calling with J10 does not = calling with 10x.

We also have a blocker to a flush that he could continue with on the turn, we're also getting a very good price, so I just call and make a note on the opponent that they c/c turn donk river with X hand strength.

was autopiloting while writing the villain description . Meant to say, decent reg or just reg. He's overall running like 20/16/6. I think, given the odds the actual river decision isn't that tough. But I'm interested in how ppl perceive the range for c/c T, d R in this spot.

Originally posted by Shevtshenko
was autopiloting while writing the villain description . Meant to say, decent reg or just reg. He's overall running like 20/16/6. I think, given the odds the actual river decision isn't that tough. But I'm interested in how ppl perceive the range for c/c T, d R in this spot.

Ah ok makes sense, then yeh the answer to the question from my perspective would be, I don't think it is a polarized range.. I think they should have some Kx that doesn't want to call a larger bet on the river and then flushes that they randomly bet small so that we always pay. The reason why I don't think it is a polarized range is because calling with J10 does not = calling with 10x.

so the flushes that you're giving him are only JcXc? or do you think he's c/cing wider with fds? Since if he can only have JcXc as a flush, it might even become a raise on R imo. Or would that be just way too loose? i don't think it's out of question that villain would be hero calling me with Kx here, given my image.

vs guys who shouldn't ever lead the river here its quite a nice merge on river with J10, although I think its ofc not standard at all and don't want to preach to PS.com members that we should be 3betting this river for value ♦

I think calling is still going to be better than raising, at least the first time because going to showdown and getting information about his hand is super critical for owning him in the future.

If we do see he had k9s, kqo or something similar in this hand and later see he takes a c/jam line with a flush, then ofc raising would be the best option here, I think the deeper we are the more appealing raising is as 1) he is less likely to 4bet bluff us and 2) we have more room for r/f.

I'll actually get Callum to post a similar hand in this thread that he played last night.

The hand i played in reference to the discussion,

I opened the button with T7o on a 200bb table. SB and BB both call, they cover.

Basically we get checked down to the river

2h 5h 8c 3h Ac

I bet 30 into 45 and the SB check raises to 129, I raise to 210 and the SB makes it 400~.

I wanted to jam sooooooooooo bad considering neither of us have a flush and he never 4bets the river with 4x

I fold and he rolls over KJo

imo, sb is way more likely to have a flush than you are. But given his 4b sizing on R, he prly almost never has it. With a blocker, i'm prly AI here ~always. But also, i don't rly like your R 3b sizing, since imo flushes make it bigger here, even with a baby flush.

btw, what stakes was that? Since it's pretty rare to see someone trying that on 1/2.

Originally posted by Shevtshenko
But also, i don't rly like your R 3b sizing, since imo flushes make it bigger here, even with a baby flush.

Although I agree with this, I don't think we're trying to get him to fold 4x or a flush on the river, we just don't have any showdown value with 10 high, and becuase its a single raised flop that got checked down we want him to grin, smile, think, grin, fold and grin.

so i guess you wouldn't make it 210 here with AK then?

Originally posted by Shevtshenko
so i guess you wouldn't make it 210 here with AK then?

Nope! ♦

tbh, i would either like a bigger 3b on R or a small one and then jam if villain cib it. Since i don't think b/m3b/f can be the best line here.

Originally posted by Shevtshenko
tbh, i would either like a bigger 3b on R or a small one and then jam if villain cib it. Since i don't think b/m3b/f can be the best line here.

or if it's live, call the last raise and start staring at the villain and collect the pot when villain mucks...

@OP-hand
Hm the question is what SB calls preflop. His range is rather strong here, I think smth like JTs or even Q9s shouldn't call.

I think his range for calling is smth like AT+, KQ and small PPs / other hands he thinks he has implieds with.

FDs are usually betting the turn I think (and given the odds, definitely not c/calling).
So the hands left are AQ/KQ/AK, maybe KJ if it happened to be in his callingrange pre.
I saw people doublechecking those quite often, so the argument he'd lead all of those most of the time is not valid I think.

@Phil

so you'd be raising river then? imo, you are forgetting JcXc here and AQ i don't think takes a c/c on T more than 15% of time.

Originally posted by Bierbaer
@OP-hand
Hm the question is what SB calls preflop. His range is rather strong here, I think smth like JTs

J10s is definitely calling pre, but I agree that villain doesn't have many flushes.

Originally posted by Shevtshenko
you are forgetting AQ

AQcc should definitely (and will almost always) be betting turn+river.

Originally posted by pleno1

Originally posted by Shevtshenko
you are forgetting AQ

AQcc should definitely (and will almost always) be betting turn+river.

my punctuation is off. But what i mean to say was, villain is going to have JcXc a decent bit on R with this line. And AQ won't c/c T very often.

Originally posted by Shevtshenko

Originally posted by pleno1

Originally posted by Shevtshenko
you are forgetting AQ

AQcc should definitely (and will almost always) be betting turn+river.

my punctuation is off. But what i mean to say was, villain is going to have JcXc a decent bit on R with this line. And AQ won't c/c T very often.

Ah ok yeh agree, next thing is to say how many Kings he flats pre with.