sng hu 1$ shove fp

i probably would ck back the flop because not much worse will call more than one street and you get put in a tough spot when ck/raised (and might have to fold the best hand sometimes or get it in with the worst hand a lot of times). you can get that one street from a high pocket pair or something weaker on the turn

readless i actually fold pre flop to the 3bet, kinda nitty but most people dont 3bet that much.

as played, i can tell you that in a 3bet pot people with initiative when they c/raise they have it, to bluff its just easier to cbet, when people take tricky lines its usually with a hand, and he isnt value betting worse ( cos A8 A7 TYPE Hands wouldnt 3bet pre flop)

thats why i dont like calling pre flop unless you know he 3bets some percentage, even with this flop which is pretty good for your hand you dont want to get it in

Hello,

Originally posted by filipetheman
readless i actually fold pre flop to the 3bet, kinda nitty but most people dont 3bet that much.

as played, i can tell you that in a 3bet pot people with initiative when they c/raise they have it, to bluff its just easier to cbet, when people take tricky lines its usually with a hand, and he isnt value betting worse ( cos A8 A7 TYPE Hands wouldnt 3bet pre flop)

thats why i dont like calling pre flop unless you know he 3bets some percentage, even with this flop which is pretty good for your hand you dont want to get it in

+1 to all of this. I am folding pre, but not because people don't 3bet that much (cause they do) but rather because our hand flops poorly and we are going to have difficulty playing postflop unless we bink an A or 9, and even then we're guessing a lot. If he is 3betting a ton we can justify 4bet shoving.

Postflop, when he makes this ridiculous check/raise size I think bet/folding is fine, since we should be able to get two/three streets out of JJ-KK and some Tx, but he has AK/AQ/AT pretty much always here.

Originally posted by wasy8
Hello,

Originally posted by filipetheman
readless i actually fold pre flop to the 3bet, kinda nitty but most people dont 3bet that much.

as played, i can tell you that in a 3bet pot people with initiative when they c/raise they have it, to bluff its just easier to cbet, when people take tricky lines its usually with a hand, and he isnt value betting worse ( cos A8 A7 TYPE Hands wouldnt 3bet pre flop)

thats why i dont like calling pre flop unless you know he 3bets some percentage, even with this flop which is pretty good for your hand you dont want to get it in

+1 to all of this. I am folding pre, but not because people don't 3bet that much (cause they do) but rather because our hand flops poorly and we are going to have difficulty playing postflop unless we bink an A or 9, and even then we're guessing a lot. If he is 3betting a ton we can justify 4bet shoving.

Postflop, when he makes this ridiculous check/raise size I think bet/folding is fine, since we should be able to get two/three streets out of JJ-KK and some Tx, but he has AK/AQ/AT pretty much always here.

the 3betting part depends on the limits, people dont 3bet as much at low stakes in my experience, but probably i can be convinced otherwise

but about the part that calling sucks i disagree very much

first you need about 35% equity to call, sure A9o you might not realize all your equity but you hit a pair about 33% of the time and theire decent pairs, villain will also c/f some times, and you also flop equity some times that allows you to semi bluff, so if vilain 3bets light its very +ev to call

as for 4bet shoving its actually the same as shoving A2o since villain just wont call worse enough of the time, and to actually 4bet shove as +ev Ax villain needs to be 3betting 30%+

so if villain 3bets light its a call for me, if he 3bets 30% + its plus ev to shove Ax, if he 3bet calls KT A7 type hands then of course you can shove A9 for value.

so in my opinion call is better then 4bet shoving usually.

if in your experience the field 3bets a decent amount, readless A9o should be a call IMO

I think in that analysis you're either underestimating or forgetting reverse implied odds completely, especially since AT+ is in most people's 3betting range and there aren't a lot of 9x in people's 3betting range. So we dominate pretty much nothing when we call and if we flop a 9 it's often not going to be top pair and we're not going to get much more than one street of value if we hit a top pair type hand and we're good.

People really rarely ch/f with initiative in 3bet pots (if they check, it's often with the intention of checkraising). I think you're going to find flatting A9o to 3x 3bets vs pretty much anyone is going to be a leak - ofc this changes vs smaller 3bets, but I'm talking strictly vs a 3x sizing here.

Originally posted by wasy8
I think in that analysis you're either underestimating or forgetting reverse implied odds completely, especially since AT+ is in most people's 3betting range and there aren't a lot of 9x in people's 3betting range. So we dominate pretty much nothing when we call and if we flop a 9 it's often not going to be top pair and we're not going to get much more than one street of value if we hit a top pair type hand and we're good.

People really rarely ch/f with initiative in 3bet pots (if they check, it's often with the intention of checkraising). I think you're going to find flatting A9o to 3x 3bets vs pretty much anyone is going to be a leak - ofc this changes vs smaller 3bets, but I'm talking strictly vs a 3x sizing here.

domination shouldn´t really be a problem it will happen as often as you flop a set, very rarely, plus i call against wide ranges so we´re just ahead of the range, and people do actually sometimes 3bet bluff blockers like A2s and that type of stuff.

and people have lots of 9x actually when they 3bet a wide range, 69 79 89 T9 J9s those type of hands.

so if you wanna talk about domination it actually works in our favor against wide ranges .

and actually a lot of people c/f sometimes, or c/c medium strenght hands, which you can actually 3barrel a very wide range for thin value and bluffs and put him to his decisions ( especially if people snap check, since they didnt consider cbetting)

Highly disagree with the lots of 9x in people's range - all of those hands you've mentioned will be in people's flatting range (maybe not 69 and 79 with some people) unless they don't have a flatting range at all.

A9o basically = A2o here if my assumption is correct that most of those 9x hands are going to be in flatting ranges and not 3betting ranges. The decision is closer if those are all in villain's 3betting range, but most of my assumptions based on general pop. tendencies are much different than yours which is mostly why we disagree here.