bu 22, multiwaypot set vs possible flush

Hello Imimba1,

Well, lets ask it this way. What do you expect to have beat on the river? Do you ever see him betting worse hands for value this way whilst FD got there and also 89 combo.

Best Regards.

Originally posted by veriz
Hello Imimba1,

Well, lets ask it this way. What do you expect to have beat on the river? Do you ever see him betting worse hands for value this way whilst FD got there and also 89 combo.

Best Regards.

Jx, Tx, 2 pairs. I can't think like a 41% vpip person, I don't really know.

What's his range?

Originally posted by Imimba1

Originally posted by veriz
Hello Imimba1,

Well, lets ask it this way. What do you expect to have beat on the river? Do you ever see him betting worse hands for value this way whilst FD got there and also 89 combo.

Best Regards.

Jx, Tx, 2 pairs. I can't think like a 41% vpip person, I don't really know.

What's his range?

Why would Tx donk the river? For a loose player you wouldn't want to give a range cause it clearly can vary too much.

Originally posted by veriz
For a loose player you wouldn't want to give a range cause it clearly can vary too much.

Isnt this enough to call river? ♦ You are right, we CANT give him a range. Then how can we assume we are beaten?
We are surely enough 27% of the times.

Or I'm making the mistake here of thinking that only one choice is good. Poker isnt plain black or white, there are grey decisions like this one. You cant make a big mistake with either of them.

Originally posted by Imimba1

Originally posted by veriz
For a loose player you wouldn't want to give a range cause it clearly can vary too much.

Isnt this enough to call river? ♦ You are right, we CANT give him a range. Then how can we assume we are beaten?
We are surely enough 27% of the times.

Or I'm making the mistake here of thinking that only one choice is good. Poker isnt plain black or white, there are grey decisions like this one. You cant make a big mistake with either of them.

What you must understand here is that he has to be bluffing as well to be ahead here. Cause clearly otherwise trying to put him on some kind of range wouldn't make sense, we can't do that. But if we expect him to bluff then we are able to call-down.

So, what`s the best turn line? Bet/fold?

If called, fold or check behind the river?

Originally posted by dienaszaglis
So, what`s the best turn line? Bet/fold?

If called, fold or check behind the river?

Turning betting wouldn't achieve much cause we ain't able to continue vs a raise. Also we are multiway so very likely draws even complete with this card. Therefore Check behind and reevaluate the river.

Originally posted by veriz
What you must understand here is that he has to be bluffing as well to be ahead here. Cause clearly otherwise trying to put him on some kind of range wouldn't make sense, we can't do that. But if we expect him to bluff then we are able to call-down.

I dont understand (gramatically) what you are trying to say there. Could you rephrase it please?

If he is not bluffing, we cant put him on a range, because it doesnt make sense?

Originally posted by Imimba1

Originally posted by veriz
What you must understand here is that he has to be bluffing as well to be ahead here. Cause clearly otherwise trying to put him on some kind of range wouldn't make sense, we can't do that. But if we expect him to bluff then we are able to call-down.

I dont understand (gramatically) what you are trying to say there. Could you rephrase it please?

If he is not bluffing, we cant put him on a range, because it doesnt make sense?

Well, you asked his range, you can't really do that without any lines taken. Especially if he is loose he may have very wide range. Also we ain't only against 1 opponent here but 2 which makes the ranges even more difficult. One of them could easily have some kind of draw which got there and most likely it Check/Raises the turn.

Originally posted by veriz

Originally posted by Imimba1

Originally posted by veriz
What you must understand here is that he has to be bluffing as well to be ahead here. Cause clearly otherwise trying to put him on some kind of range wouldn't make sense, we can't do that. But if we expect him to bluff then we are able to call-down.

I dont understand (gramatically) what you are trying to say there. Could you rephrase it please?

If he is not bluffing, we cant put him on a range, because it doesnt make sense?

Well, you asked his range, you can't really do that without any lines taken. Especially if he is loose he may have very wide range. Also we ain't only against 1 opponent here but 2 which makes the ranges even more difficult. One of them could easily have some kind of draw which got there and most likely it Check/Raises the turn.

What does it mean? Without any lines taken? You mean, because of my check behind on the turn, it's nearly impossible to put them on a hand?
Well, if we are consistent with what we are saying, their range is still wide ♠_biggrin:
I'm really not trying to be annoying here, but I really want to get this straight:

If we CAN NOT put them on a range, we CAN NOT say that we are beaten on the river, hence we SHOULD call.
As soon as we say that we can not call, it implies that we put them on monsters here, hence putting them on a range.
I mean, either I say that I'm beaten and I fold, OR I say that I'm not skilled enough to put him on a range, so I have to call.
Saying that I cant put him on a range, but have to fold river is inconsistent.

Hard to put guy on a range, but you can decide whether to call or not:

-Aggression frequency on river: if it's high, call it
-Won at showdown when bet/raise river: of course, if it is less than 50 % you might as well be ahead there.

But against a vpip 40 guy it's hard to call any river. They can definitely have any 2 suited cards there, even that 89 and in worst case a better set that calls you off.