Skip to forum
Search
Forums
Poker Strategy and ...
Tournaments
Hand discussions fo...
88 Fcoop Me
 
Notifications
Clear all

88 Fcoop Me

 
Hand discussions for Tournaments
Last Post by chenny8888 14 years ago
17 Posts
6 Users
0 Reactions
2,074 Views
RSS
alexd2
alexd2
Joined: 18.10.2010
Posts: 4
13.11.2012, 01:06

Hello ! This hand is from the FCOOP ME yesterday (1k euro BI). Got 116 hands with the BB guy. Stats : 19/10, donk 1/6 times; the raiser is 19/12 with 29% raise first from MP.

Poker Stars No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t250.00/t500.00 Blinds - 9 players - View hand 1996513
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG+2: t68023.00 136.05 BBs
MP1: t16892.00 33.78 BBs
MP2: t24360.00 48.72 BBs
CO: t27033.00 54.07 BBs
BTN: t27912.00 55.82 BBs
Hero (SB): t19916.00 39.83 BBs
BB: t82616.00 165.23 BBs
UTG: t27860.00 55.72 BBs
UTG+1: t94909.00 189.82 BBs

Pre Flop: (t750) Hero is SB with 8 :club: 8 :heart:
3 folds, MP1 raises to t1000, 3 folds, Hero calls t750, BB calls t500

Flop: (t3000) 7 :diamond: 4 :heart: 5 :club: (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t2500.00, MP1 calls t2500, Hero calls t2500

Turn: (t10500) 6 :club: (3 players)
Hero bets t4325.00, BB calls t4325, MP1 folds

River: (t19150) 6 :heart: (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t74731.00, Hero folds

What do you think is the optimal play here ?


Reply
Quote
16 replies
Asaban
Asaban
Joined: 22.09.2006
Posts: 8,275
13.11.2012, 06:40

Will move your hand to our hand evaluation forums!

Regards,
Asaban


Ex psde Coach: Meine Videos :|
Aktuell Coach für RaiseYourEdge :sfishy:
:skype:: Asaban86
Discord: Asaban#5721

Reply
Quote
TheRebuz
TheRebuz
Joined: 12.10.2008
Posts: 2,077
13.11.2012, 09:12

Wot 1k bi and this hand

U have ~16k on turn in 10k pot so imo
Ch shove or donk shove

If u ch and hand is ch around ch call river


Reply
Quote
chenny8888
chenny8888
Joined: 03.10.2007
Posts: 17,729
14.11.2012, 12:07

Hi all,

I like going for a check on the turn. I want to say for "balance" but really it's just because there's no huge need for protection, and you will not be able to donk the turn, shove the river to get called by any hands that a c/c turn, c/c river doesn't stack.

The advantage of c/c turn, c/c river is that our opponent can try spewily barrel us off of our range, which isn't very strong here in general (the only 8x hand you have is 88 in your preflop defense range.

C/c flop, donk turn is a line I personally take never.


chenny8888 / hav0c (my online nick) / "you are such a luckbox" (my live poker nick):

//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngSNG Bronze Hand Evaluations ||https://d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngFeedback to my SNG Bronze coaching
//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngVideos I did for PokerStrategy.com: http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/bronze.png Bronze videos || http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/silver.png Silver videos || http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/gold.pngGold videos
//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngNew Zealand (AOTEAROA - THE LAND OF THE LONG WHITE CLOUD)

Reply
Quote
alexd2
alexd2
Joined: 18.10.2010
Posts: 4
14.11.2012, 20:15

Thanks , guys ! I like check calling on the turn , but the reason I bet into 2 opponents on the turn is that I dont beleive that anyone of them is gonna bet the turn with smth weaker that 3x, which means all the sets and 2 pair hands will get a free card , which is not that good...
Greetings from Bulgaria !


Reply
Quote
chenny8888
chenny8888
Joined: 03.10.2007
Posts: 17,729
14.11.2012, 22:01

They can bluff though :). Giving freecards to a range that doesn't have that many sets/two pairs isn't too big a deal. Don't worry about it, and worry more about value maximizing here!


chenny8888 / hav0c (my online nick) / "you are such a luckbox" (my live poker nick):

//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngSNG Bronze Hand Evaluations ||https://d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngFeedback to my SNG Bronze coaching
//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngVideos I did for PokerStrategy.com: http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/bronze.png Bronze videos || http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/silver.png Silver videos || http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/gold.pngGold videos
//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngNew Zealand (AOTEAROA - THE LAND OF THE LONG WHITE CLOUD)

Reply
Quote
PaPi92
PaPi92
Joined: 17.02.2011
Posts: 452
14.11.2012, 22:22

Chenny, what range would you give to BB? I think if MP1 don`t have a high cbet percentage, BB can easily donk bet with sets or two pairs(if he calls 54s,75s pre flop).


Reply
Quote
chenny8888
chenny8888
Joined: 03.10.2007
Posts: 17,729
15.11.2012, 11:03

Judging by the player, a decent chunk of 7x and 6x hands are in his range IMO.


chenny8888 / hav0c (my online nick) / "you are such a luckbox" (my live poker nick):

//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngSNG Bronze Hand Evaluations ||https://d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngFeedback to my SNG Bronze coaching
//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngVideos I did for PokerStrategy.com: http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/bronze.png Bronze videos || http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/silver.png Silver videos || http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/gold.pngGold videos
//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngNew Zealand (AOTEAROA - THE LAND OF THE LONG WHITE CLOUD)

Reply
Quote
PaPi92
PaPi92
Joined: 17.02.2011
Posts: 452
15.11.2012, 11:57

I don`t mean that only sets and two pairs are in his range.
But he might have more often these hands with this big bet on the flop.


Reply
Quote
chenny8888
chenny8888
Joined: 03.10.2007
Posts: 17,729
16.11.2012, 01:25

Originally posted by PaPi92
I don`t mean that only sets and two pairs are in his range.
But he might have more often these hands with this big bet on the flop.

there are some, and that's why I like the river check/fold. But the number of 6x and 7x hands are much more numerous.


chenny8888 / hav0c (my online nick) / "you are such a luckbox" (my live poker nick):

//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngSNG Bronze Hand Evaluations ||https://d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngFeedback to my SNG Bronze coaching
//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngVideos I did for PokerStrategy.com: http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/bronze.png Bronze videos || http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/silver.png Silver videos || http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/gold.pngGold videos
//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngNew Zealand (AOTEAROA - THE LAND OF THE LONG WHITE CLOUD)

Reply
Quote
thesundancekid
thesundancekid
Joined: 09.05.2011
Posts: 152
18.11.2012, 15:57

Hi,

I think you should have 3bet the pocket 8s pre , BB folds and you are hu with MP1, in very good shape on that flop.

as it was playing,

I like how u played it, I would have fired turn as pot is 3ways,

but i would have check called river ...


Reply
Quote
chenny8888
chenny8888
Joined: 03.10.2007
Posts: 17,729
18.11.2012, 17:26

plz don't do that, 3bet 88 preflop against MP1 just to hope he folds with no blockers/poor hand in 3bet pot is generally not a good idea. and by generally: i mean always.


chenny8888 / hav0c (my online nick) / "you are such a luckbox" (my live poker nick):

//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngSNG Bronze Hand Evaluations ||https://d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngFeedback to my SNG Bronze coaching
//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngVideos I did for PokerStrategy.com: http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/bronze.png Bronze videos || http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/silver.png Silver videos || http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/gold.pngGold videos
//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngNew Zealand (AOTEAROA - THE LAND OF THE LONG WHITE CLOUD)

Reply
Quote
PaPi92
PaPi92
Joined: 17.02.2011
Posts: 452
19.11.2012, 10:59

VS agro villain and good dynamic can be profitable to 3bet/call, but 3bet/folding 88 in this spot is terrible. (maybe even in every spot)


Reply
Quote
chenny8888
chenny8888
Joined: 03.10.2007
Posts: 17,729
21.11.2012, 05:33

Originally posted by PaPi92
VS agro villain and good dynamic can be profitable to 3bet/call, but 3bet/folding 88 in this spot is terrible. (maybe even in every spot)

I can't think of a single situation 3bet/folding 88 vs an aggro player is good, so I agree. If you are against a fish, you can take the 3bet/fold line with 88 for value. But I would want to be: in position + against someone who is NEVER going to 4bet bluff me!


chenny8888 / hav0c (my online nick) / "you are such a luckbox" (my live poker nick):

//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngSNG Bronze Hand Evaluations ||https://d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngFeedback to my SNG Bronze coaching
//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngVideos I did for PokerStrategy.com: http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/bronze.png Bronze videos || http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/silver.png Silver videos || http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/gold.pngGold videos
//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngNew Zealand (AOTEAROA - THE LAND OF THE LONG WHITE CLOUD)

Reply
Quote
thesundancekid
thesundancekid
Joined: 09.05.2011
Posts: 152
23.11.2012, 02:05

IMO if he had 3bet 88 there BB would have folded his shit cards , and the pot would have been HU.,

yes are are OPP.

IMO, If I 3bet pockets 8s there ,BB folds, im 100% firing 1/2 to 3/4 flop size bet ,MP1 then folds his ak,aq,aj qk,aj etc..

if MP1 had 4bet me PRE then i timer it and fold, if MP1 , raisesor calls my flop c/ bet i timer it then fold to any action,

I dont like flatting 8s here, its 3bet or fold IMO.

also it depends on reads and table images,,


Reply
Quote
chenny8888
chenny8888
Joined: 03.10.2007
Posts: 17,729
24.11.2012, 19:47

Reasons to 3bet:

.

Reasons to Flat:

BB is a fish. We want to play pots against the fish with decent hands.

Villain raised from EP, as such:

We are not an equity favourite against his range.
He has more very strong hands, which means we have a more profitable setmine situation.
(He MAY 4bet bluff more often, seeing as how his range appears stronger.)

We have no blockers. In terms of pure preflop 3bet success %, holding 88 does not increase our chances of getting a 3bet "bluff??" through.

Our hand does not play well in a 3bet pot, this is because:

We only flop a set 12.5% of the time. These are easy to play!
The rest of the time, we flop near nothing and have a very tough time continuing past the flop. Flops with 1 or 2 overcards, we have to play guessing games. Except now we play guessing games for bigger pots.
We're 3betting an EP raiser. He may flat better pairs than ours vs our 3bet! This makes it tough to even get it in with an overpair on the flop comfortably.

He could bluff 4bet us with worse.


chenny8888 / hav0c (my online nick) / "you are such a luckbox" (my live poker nick):

//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngSNG Bronze Hand Evaluations ||https://d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngFeedback to my SNG Bronze coaching
//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngVideos I did for PokerStrategy.com: http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/bronze.png Bronze videos || http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/silver.png Silver videos || http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/gold.pngGold videos
//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngNew Zealand (AOTEAROA - THE LAND OF THE LONG WHITE CLOUD)

Reply
Quote
chenny8888
chenny8888
Joined: 03.10.2007
Posts: 17,729
24.11.2012, 20:09

any questions, please reopen this thread!


chenny8888 / hav0c (my online nick) / "you are such a luckbox" (my live poker nick):

//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngSNG Bronze Hand Evaluations ||https://d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngFeedback to my SNG Bronze coaching
//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngVideos I did for PokerStrategy.com: http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/bronze.png Bronze videos || http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/silver.png Silver videos || http://de.pokerstrategy.com/images/ranks/mini/gold.pngGold videos
//d3ltpfxjzvda6e.cloudfront.net/Editorial/elements/ps_image_arrow_link.pngNew Zealand (AOTEAROA - THE LAND OF THE LONG WHITE CLOUD)

Reply
Quote
Forum Jump:
  Previous Topic
Next Topic